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> I think north america is going to regret not having 1st class support for 3 phase charging baked into all electrified vehicles in the long term. Doubt it. L

> I think north america is going to regret not having 1st class support for 3 phase charging baked into all electrified vehicles in the long term. Doubt it. Long term, I think cars are going to drop AC chargers entire (they're heavy and expensive), and when DCFC are available everywhere there won't be any reason to pay for one in your vehicle. As manufacturers look for places to reduce cost and bring vehicles down market, we will start to see this. For people who still want it, someone will build a portable 1.4kW DC charger that you can plug into a regular household socket.

Kirby64 2y ago
I doubt your doubt. They’re not that heavy, and a 12kW inverter charger isn’t particularly expensive. Maybe $600-700 retail or $200-300 in BOM. Asking everyone to put a high power AC/DC converter in their house or charging infrastructure even for “low” (8-12kW) power stuff is asking a lot for pushing cost around. Long term, you want chargers to be cheap as chips… not more expensive.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  No, long term you want cars to be cheap as chips and chargers to be more expensive. There are way more chargers than cars, and they probably last a lot longer. And removing the converter from the car means you can make it bigger and heavier and cheaper. And it removes an expensive point of failure from cars.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    If there’s more chargers than there are cars, then moving cost into the chargers is bad. Adding cost to something we want to be as ubiquitous as possible (charging infrastructure) will hamper it. Also, not sure if you’ve ever seen even the infrastructure for existing EV chargers… but I’m skeptical that infrastructure will outlast cars in most cases. There’s a ton of maintenance I’ve seen required just on the “dumb” AC chargers. People hit them, they get vandalized, or they just stop working. Making them even more expensive to repair would be the wrong move.
    - IshKebab 2y ago
      Sorry I meant more cars than chargers.

Kirby64 2y ago

I doubt your doubt. They’re not that heavy, and a 12kW inverter charger isn’t particularly expensive. Maybe $600-700 retail or $200-300 in BOM. Asking everyone to put a high power AC/DC converter in their house or charging infrastructure even for “low” (8-12kW) power stuff is asking a lot for pushing cost around. Long term, you want chargers to be cheap as chips… not more expensive.

IshKebab 2y ago
No, long term you want cars to be cheap as chips and chargers to be more expensive. There are way more chargers than cars, and they probably last a lot longer. And removing the converter from the car means you can make it bigger and heavier and cheaper. And it removes an expensive point of failure from cars.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  If there’s more chargers than there are cars, then moving cost into the chargers is bad. Adding cost to something we want to be as ubiquitous as possible (charging infrastructure) will hamper it. Also, not sure if you’ve ever seen even the infrastructure for existing EV chargers… but I’m skeptical that infrastructure will outlast cars in most cases. There’s a ton of maintenance I’ve seen required just on the “dumb” AC chargers. People hit them, they get vandalized, or they just stop working. Making them even more expensive to repair would be the wrong move.
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    Sorry I meant more cars than chargers.