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As someone who struggled with their weight his whole life, this medication is a god send. My wife and I cook every evening. We never eat food made in a factory

• ak_111 2y ago
  "Why do we find it acceptable to help people who struggle with alcohol abuse, or nicotine addiction, or opioid addiction, but not to help people who struggle with food abuse?" I think it is because if 90% of the population did half of what you do (and kudos for you for doing it), they wouldn't have a problem with weight, you just happen to be one of the unlucky few where it doesn't work and these drugs are useful.
  • karmajunkie 2y ago
    there are numerous studies posted in this thread demonstrating exactly the opposite.
    • ak_111 2y ago
      Which studies? I find it hard to imagine that it has been proven that for most people having a low-carb unprocessed meal once a day, no alcohol, and 5-mile daily hikes as the original poster does would would not eliminate sever weight issues. There are clearly minority of people who can only achieve weight loss using drugs but for most people they can achieve the same effect by a lifestyle change, has this been proven incorrect? I think the best empirical result for this is to compare US with any other western country (say Japan or France) or even US states with each other, clearly lifestyle plays a huge role in obesity.
      • grecy 2y ago
        > There are clearly minority of people who can only achieve weight loss using drugs but Are you suggesting there are people who can burn more energy than they ingest for a prolonged period of time and not lose weight? That… would fundamentally rewrite everything we know about how mammals consume energy. Of course not. Nobody needs drugs to lose weight, they need to consume less energy than they use.
        • ak_111 2y ago
          No for example they might have severe food addiction that it makes it hard for them to reduce food consumption otherwise.
  • keybored 2y ago
    Commenter: This drug helped me with weight loss. Commenter 2: Kodus to you. Let me just discount your anecdote as being unlucky and keep my current belief. But again, kudos. HN threads on weightloss are an utter waste of time.
    • OJFord 2y ago
      I don't think that's particularly charitable, GGP said themselves that their issue is volume, that they're doing well in many other ways. GP is saying if everyone could do what they've done, many fewer would have the problem, and so maybe it would have less stigma.
      • keybored 2y ago
        > I don't think that's particularly charitable, As a direct reply to the challenge that the original poster made: > > Why do we find it acceptable to help people who struggle with alcohol abuse, or nicotine addiction, or opioid addiction, but not to help people who struggle with food abuse? They said nah, you were unlucky. In other words just dismiss his point outright. Is that still uncharitable? Then so be it. > GGP said themselves that their issue is volume, that they're doing well in many other ways. Yes they said that they have a food addiction. - The alcoholic said that his problem is the volume of alcohol intake - The smoker said that… Then asked why we won’t help food addicts. Just waffle on about self-discipline or hint at it. This question is still yet to be answered. > GP is saying if everyone could do what they've done, many fewer would have the problem, and so maybe it would have less stigma. Maybe if those people had more self-discipline. Then maybe there would be less of a stigma. You’re using the rationalized stigma to explain the stigma. This is at best circular. Maybe we would respect ex-smokers more if they had the discpline to not ingest nicotine gum.
    • ak_111 2y ago
      This is quite snarky. I was giving kudos because the commentator first exhausted all the lifestyle options that extremely often work in reducing obesity to ensure their issue is more than just lifestyle choice then finally taking the drug, rather than short circuiting the process. This is sensible policy in deciding to take any drug for the rest of your life for a chronic illness. In other words I was giving kudos that the commentator put in a lot of effort to verify that it was an illness in their case.
• colordrops 2y ago
  Have you every using a calorie/macro tracking app like My Fitness Pal or Cronometer? I was never successful losing weight until I scanned, weighed, and measured every single thing I put into my body and stuck to the target calories and macros entered into the app. Just being aware of exactly how much I was eating was often enough to find the motivation to control volume.
  • brianmcc 2y ago
    >> I scanned, weighed, and measured every single thing I put into my body Not being snarky, but is this truly "better" than a single weekly injection - 10 seconds and done for the week? I do think our wider society sees medications for overeating as "cheating". Perhaps we might benefit from rethinking that.
    • colordrops 2y ago
      For preventable diseases in general, prevention and self control should be attempted before medication. There are health benefits besides being skinny, and all medications have side effects. There's nothing inherently wrong with medication, but addressing the root cause should be tried first, and then medication can be introduced if it doesn't work out. It's not an either-or, binary situation.
      • paulryanrogers 2y ago
        Self control has gotten harder as the foods on offer have gotten more sugary and dense compared to traditional foods. Produce is also less available and less nutritious than it once was.
        • colordrops 2y ago
          No doubt.
      • brianmcc 2y ago
        I don't disagree. As I've gotten older though I am just increasingly convinced that for the regular person going about their life, the fight against cheap and terrible and calorie-laden - but tasty! - processed foods is not an even one. Perhaps some form of counter-balance is just not such a bad thing?
• globular-toast 2y ago
  I think there's a few factors at play: 1. People might want to help, but they don't think taking a pill every day for the rest of your life is a proper solution. I'm not aware of any such things for other addictions you mention, 2. People don't want other people to have it easier than they did. "I had to diet and exercise etc, you should too", 3. People don't want to help. They want other people to be fat because it makes them relatively more attractive.
  • mort96 2y ago
    re: 1, there are plenty of people who take some medication at some interval for most of their life. People with ADHD, people with type 1 diabetes, most women, ... why do we find that totally unproblematic, but as soon as it's medication to help with obesity (which is a serious medical condition in its own right) it's suddenly such a big problem? EDIT: And to be clear, there may be specifics with these particular drugs which are problematic, maybe they're by necessity expensive or resource intensive to manufacture, maybe they have problematic long-term effects, I don't know. I'm purely talking about the general aversion some people claim to have regarging taking some medication on an interval to help with a health problem. It makes little sense to me.
    • tjpnz 2y ago
      As someone who takes meds for ADHD and would benefit from Ozempic I'm still hesitant. There aren't any non-drug options for my ADHD but there's a proven one for my weight.
    • hirvi74 2y ago
      > People with ADHD, people with type 1 diabetes, most women, ... why do we find that totally unproblematic ADHD medicine is highly problematic. The medications are controlled to ridiculous levels, and there are strong social stigmas against both the condition and the disorder.
      • mort96 2y ago
        Notice how the problematic things with ADHD medication are manufactured problems which don't need to exist.
• taejavu 2y ago
  What kind of food do you and your wife cook? How much meat? How much gluten? Real butter or canola oil infused “spreads”? What oil do you cook with? Vegetable? Sunflower? If you’re eating the right thing for your body, you’ll be satiated when you eat your full.
  • nawgz 2y ago
    Bodies are highly imperfect and suggesting our digestive system and nervous system are geared for being fit and healthy rather than ensuring survival wrt food is absurdly naive.
  • sundvor 2y ago
    (I only cook with extra virgin olive oil which I buy in 5L cans for $$ reasons. A lot of these vegetable oils are good for motor engines only!). It really depends on you and the activity levels. I used to ride to and from work - and I would ride hard, a solid 1.5 hour of riding every single workday. Yet this just caused me to gain weight as my appetite just shot through the roof. This new drug would have been SO good for me back then. These days I find it easier to control my weight with regular strength exercise vs riding, as I tend to go too hard on the riding which causes me to feel famished. And then the control is just hard. However when I just do (Olympic barbell) weights, a bacon, egg and onion + cheese omelette in real butter and EVOO does the trick to break my IF then, along with a WPI/milk shake- I get stronger and also lose weight. No need to keep eating. However, I'll then do cardio a couple of times per week which tends to undo the weight progress; I guess the real trick would be to stop doing the hard intervals I love on the Kickr, but going slow on the bike is nearly impossible for me. :-)
    • arandomusername 2y ago
      Maybe using too much oil in your food? It's got crazy calories. Eat low calorie (and ideally high protein) after exercising. Fruit and Veg are amazing for this.
• mrshadowgoose 2y ago
  > Why do we find it acceptable to help people who struggle with alcohol abuse, or nicotine addiction, or opioid addiction, but not to help people who struggle with food abuse? "Getting fit and staying fit" is a form of social capital, because it's extremely hard and only within reach of a small portion of the population. "Being fit" is strongly aligned with "being attractive" which confers all sorts of cross-cutting social benefits. Some people feel cheated when medication allows others to "effortlessly" join this social club, and then become vile and hateful in response.
  • unclad5968 2y ago
    In what ways is fitness not within reach for a large portion of the population?
    • mrshadowgoose 2y ago
      Studies have repeatedly shown that lifestyle modification does not result in sustained weight loss for most. Not going to waste my time providing sources to remedy your ignorance. You are more than capable of doing this research yourself.
      • paulddraper 2y ago
        Nor will I waste time proving the opposite. Until next time we meet on the internet. :salute:
      • JamesBarney 2y ago
        Yeah the problem with providing a study is that proving a negative is so hard. Everyone assumes there exists a successful RCT with a 5-10 year time horizon for weight loss via lifestyle interventions. And there just isn't one, and the only way to know that is to search for one.
      • artursapek 2y ago
        How does "burning more calories than you consume" not result in weight loss for most people, lmao?
• dj_gitmo 2y ago
  > And still weight kept on coming on. Worse yet, I am on ADHD medication, which are amphetamines and actually make you lose weight. Yet... the number on the scale kept on creeping up. The therapeutic amphetamines dosages for ADHD is below the threshold required for produce meaningful weight loss. It's not surprising that it didn't help you lose weight.
  • theshackleford 2y ago
    > The therapeutic amphetamines dosages for ADHD is below the threshold required for produce meaningful weight loss. That’s not been my experience at all. My dosage absolutely significantly suppresses my appetite and always has. This has directly led to sustained weight loss. It did so badly enough at one point that I was underweight significantly. I have to force myself to eat on my meds, even though the thought often makes me ill. I’m on 30mg dexamfetamine daily. “Dexamfetamine can make you want to eat less, so you may lose weight while taking it. Some people gain weight, but weight loss is more common.” Doesn’t seem to be hit everyone but equally doesn’t seem rare.
• archsurface 2y ago
  You mention types of food but not quantities. A boat load of healthy food is still going to have an effect. Also, I for one don't consider walking to be exercise. It's fake exercise for people who don't like exercise to claim they exercise. My reason is that I cycle for eight months of the year then walk during the rainy months. By the end of the rainy months I get back on the bike and my fitness level is catastrophic - nothing. I've done this for five years, and have to say walking is just not good enough for exercise, not even close.
  • brianmcc 2y ago
    To be fair OP did say: >> And you know what it is? It's volume. I eat too much.
    • archsurface 2y ago
      I missed that.
  • jart 2y ago
    What about someone who's carrying 100+ pounds of excess body weight? Would you consider walking to be fake exercise for them? I'd say that's a more heroic workout than joy riding.
    • archsurface 2y ago
      I've seen such people jogging - intervals - short jog, short walk, short jog, ... They didn't look comfortable, but when I'm cycling uphill toward the end of a hard ride with nothing left in the burning legs I start grimacing too. What do you want? No free lunch.
  • phillipcarter 2y ago
    Can't speak for OP, but generally speaking there's a lot of variability in peoples' perceptions of healthy food and caloric density. For example, a lot of people see nuts as health food, and yet they're some of the most calorically dense foods you can eat! Another example would be to crack open the Ottolenghi cookbook and make the delicious Lamb Siniyah, which among other things calls for a large amount of Tahini mixed with lemon juice to create a delicious crust over the top of the stew. Delicious, but incredibly calorically dense.
• ip26 2y ago
  Why do we find it acceptable to help... I think if the widely available help for alcoholics, smokers, or opioid addicts mainly mitigated the negative consequences - enabling them to drink, smoke, or dope more - it wouldn't be nearly as acceptable. I personally expect weight loss medication that simply makes people want to eat less will reach cultural acceptance. Case in point, cigarettes have been known to suppress appetite for ages, and people have elected to smoke to help stay thin for decades. There was never any crushing social stigma attached to doing this as a weight loss strategy (that I know of).
  • aeonik 2y ago
    wait, I thought that's exactly what ozempic did...
• omikun 2y ago
  I think a lot of it is dealing with hunger. If you can't stand being a little hungry, never mind very hungry, no diet will really help. I used to love being very hungry, not sure how I got there, but I wish I can go back there again. Having very little carbs and temptations in the house helps. Unfortunately it's not up to only me.
• aucisson_masque 2y ago
  [flagged]
• larodi 2y ago
  Perhaps the first person on HN who actively and without shame pays attention to the fact that Adderall is a very nice amphet cocktail. Surprising though you don't loose wait with it, sad also given the circumstances. But I envy you a little cause such ADHD boost is only illegal in EU. Sometimes I wonder if it was a some neat trick by US gov to diagnose and put 1/5 of the population on amphetamines (2024 data +60mil prescriptions of Adderall), so that most everyone who is actually like smart or sensitive or anything of value to the industry, can (almost) freely microdose on it and as a result increase productivity. Which... means 1/5 of the population suddenly increases output. Perhaps we all'd be on Aderall at some point, dunno bout the Ozempics...
  • dahinds 2y ago
    I think you're incorrectly assuming that one prescription = one person. Far less than 20% of the population is taking Adderall, this CDC study says 4% in 2021. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7213a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7213a1.htm
    • larodi 2y ago
      Yes you are right. One prescription gives one person access to pills and then they resurface for many others on the black market. You can be absolutely sure it’s very popular among STEM students, not the least because they can understand why would they need it. I can only imagine the pressure to stay in Ivy League university, would totally make it reasonable to use one if you do five exams in a row. Since you can find it being sold at raves in EU I’m absolutely sure a) it works; b) not convinced only one in five prescribed takes it and all other toss it in the toilet; c) there’s a surge in use and demand. When I also found my high profile friend working FAANG for years, who’s straight edge and goes regularly to church’s is taking it for productivity boost, and happy about it… well I realised what actually is happening. Indeed the good thing about adhd is tis a very vague diagnosis. And yes it works well on many undiagnosed people, and particularly in countries where ADHD is not a recognised ontology. So let’s be real and honest. Besides media is hyping in September’24 about dangerous shortage of Adderall as if people are left with no access to vitals. It is hyped more than the fact that coffee prices are likely to double and triple in months to come.
• dehugger 2y ago
  Seconding Zepbound, it has been absolutely life changing for me, and not only in terms of weight loss. It's expensive, but I am blessed with a tech salary that can afford it.
• squidgedcricket 2y ago
  Would you mind sharing what your diet was like as a child? I wonder if there's a connection between diet during development and adult processing of and cravings for food. Maybe eating candy for breakfast (cookiecrisp!) every day in elementary school messed a bunch of us up.
  • sexy_seedbox 2y ago
    Not OP, but I ate sooo much Kellogg's and General Mill's sugary products in high school for breakfast (pop tarts, eggo waffles, all the disgusting cereals you can name...), but I took Centrum daily and played a ton of basketball after school. Almost 1 can of coke a day after school. No heath problems as an adult. But of course, genetics come into play as well, no overweight parents or relatives.
• mixmastamyk 2y ago
  Try a very low carb diet. Only eat until 80% full at mealtime. Get down to two meals a day, with a goal of only one. Fast the other times. This sounds hard but once you get to ketosis it is not that hard at all. Not hungry naturally, like the drug response. Truth is, we really don't need more than one meal a day (maybe a snack) when we get older and our metabolism slows.
• refurb 2y ago
  > And you know what it is? It's volume. I eat too much. 100% this. I lived in Asia for a few years and obesity is rare (though increasing for youth). It's not like they get more exercise (most people don't) or eat healthy (it's mostly carbs), but 100% portion sizes. I see people who work manual labor jobs eat lunch that is a bowl of noddles, a few thin slices of chicken or pork, and a few veggies. I highly doubt it exceeds 500 kcalories. It's probably half the portion size you'd get in the US. Mystery solved. If you're only eating 1500 to 1800 kcal per day as an adult male doing manual labor, it's pretty obvious why you're at 10% body fat.
  • coffeebeqn 2y ago
    > It's probably half the portion size you'd get in the US. A lot of the sides in your average US restaurant is easily 1000kcal on its own
    • sirsinsalot 2y ago
      That's insane. It's also not just about calories. The amount of corn syrups used in drinks is crazy too. Your body will just spike your glucose and dump it to fat. It amazes me that Americans head scratch over their obesity epidemic then reach for a product to solve the issues their food industry and culture made for them.
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
• wiseowise 2y ago
  > Why do we find it acceptable to help people who struggle with alcohol abuse, or nicotine addiction, or opioid addiction, but not to help people who struggle with food abuse? For the same reason why skinny person taking steroids is frowned upon - it is perceived as a shortcut.
  • cthalupa 2y ago
    Supra-physiological levels of testosterone and steroids have incredibly well known and well researched short, medium, and long term side effects. They've been well known for forever. In an alternate world where steroids had a good safety profile, it would be ridiculous to not use them if you were looking to add on muscle mass.
    • wiseowise 2y ago
      > Supra-physiological levels of testosterone and steroids have incredibly well known and well researched short, medium, and long term side effects. They've been well known for forever. I’m pretty sure if you have professional pharmacist working on you then you can mitigate the issues and make it semi healthy. The point is that it is being frowned upon not because of health issues, but because it’s not an “honest work”.
      • cthalupa 2y ago
        You can make short cycles once or twice a year relatively safe for some steroids. Keep close track of your liver enzymes and blood pressure, discontinue if those look bad, otherwise stay on for 4-6 weeks, take half a year off, repeat. Got exposed to people doing that when I was in the gym frequently, still keep up with some now, all their levels look fine. But even with significant additional intervention, when you move beyond that to the "blast and cruise" setup, those interventions are just mitigating factors, not truly preventative. I get what you're saying, I've never touched any of them myself, because the juice wasn't worth the squeeze (hah), but if they did have very good safety profiles, I would have zero problem with anyone taking them and would think it would be silly if anyone did.
• unraveller 2y ago
  Anyone can list 50 no-no things they don't eat and omit the 5 types of foods they do choose that causes the most damage. Volume & variety are not to blame given most sauces are calorie dense. The issue generally is the person eating for pleasure conflicting with their stated aim to eat for weight maintenance. If it tastes good spit it out. Countless people ready to tell you no sacrifice is needed in that domain but they have something to sell or trade.
  • pgwhalen 2y ago
    In my experience, as someone who has gone on a small weight loss journey, you can eat things that taste good, you just have to eat less of them and more rarely.
• static_motion 2y ago
  > It's volume. I eat too much. Bingo. I've had this conversation with my girlfriend. She's not overweight by any means (160 cm ~55 kg) but I am quite underweight (182 cm, 65 kg, < 10% body fat) and the conclusion I've arrived at regarding our differences in body composition is because she routinely eats 1.3x to 1.5x the amount I eat. We both exercise and eat little junk food. I'm convinced it has to do with upbringing. My family never ate a lot and the portions I was served as a kid weren't big. Nobody in my family is anything more than skinny. Her family however, they eat a lot (and healthy too, mind you). This is all influenced by other factors, her parents and grandparents grew up with not a lot to their names and with food scarcity, so when they reached a position in life where they could comfortably afford to eat they gained the habit of having big meals. My family was mostly more privileged in that regard so maybe they never felt the need to focus on food as much.
• scotty79 2y ago
  > We never eat food made in a factory. We buy raw products and spend a good amount of time every day cooking them. > ... > Yet... the number on the scale kept on creeping up. That is absolutely terrifying. What oils did you use for cooking?
• risenshinetech 2y ago
  > And you know what it is? It's volume. I eat too much. Have you considered eating less?