4 ms·

Sure, but the "unhealthy but not excessively caloric" diet is not a problem ozempic attempts to address. As far as I understand, it simply limits your appetite.

by asib 2y ago

Sure, but the "unhealthy but not excessively caloric" diet is not a problem ozempic attempts to address. As far as I understand, it simply limits your appetite. Potentially one can go on ozempic, lose weight, and still end up eating unhealthily, because the resulting diet is made up of nutritionally poor foods.

MBCook 2y ago
No, but if it helps avoid the discussion because the very visible side effect is lessened, then in some ways things are worse. No squeaky wheel. I’m glad it’s available for those who need it. But I agree with GP that there is another discussion we need to be having too we’ve avoided for far far too long.
- Blackthorn 2y ago
  "visible side effect", dude, modern food is fortified to the hilt. If you're overeating on calories it's tough to have a deficiency in most places!
  - MBCook 2y ago
    I wasn’t talking about nutrients at all. I was referring to the problems of over processed foods with lots of chemicals to increase shelf life and improve color and make them more addictive. I’m not against Ozempic. But without it maybe the continued expansion of the obesity epidemic would have pushed the discussion. If this accidentally prevents that discussion, I think that’s a problem. I’m not suggesting any change to the drug’s availability. Only concern over an important discussion.
    - Blackthorn 2y ago
      > But without it maybe the continued expansion of the obesity epidemic would have pushed the discussion. It's been forty years, how much longer would it take to admit that's not happening?
      - MBCook 2y ago
        Maybe it’s naïve. But it’s getting harder and harder to ignore, and worse and worse. As we export our food to more and more places, it starts to happen to them. I hear about people who take trips to Europe. They eat a ton, feel better, and lose weight. They get back home, start eating food here (even healthy food) and feel worse again. Gain it back despite eating less. We’ve tried ignoring it. We’ve tried blaming genetics, character, fat in foods, sugar, and willpower. But none of those have explained/fixed it. Because I don’t think that’s the problem. I want the evidence to keep piling up. I don’t want anyone to suffer unnecessarily, but I don’t want a new excuse to stop progress again. It doesn’t have to be either/or. But if we give up the chance for the debate because a new miracle drug “solved“ it nothing will change.
giantg2 2y ago
And the argument you are replying to is that it's just covering up a symptom and not addressing the root problem holistically. Ozempic isn't a fix, it's a bandaid.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  Bandaids serve a genuinely useful health-promoting purpose. I suspect we'll find the same is true of GLP-1s even if it only addresses part of the entire problem.
  - giantg2 2y ago
    Only when applied correctly and with other interventions. Using ozempic without diet and exercise changes is like putting a bandaid on a .5" deep wound without sterilizing it.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      because ozempic reduces the food cravings, patients are able to implement and stick with a diet change. it's not like "put down that cheeseburger and have a salad" is something they haven't heard before and haven't internalized already, it's just their brain won't do it. ozempic gives them the space on their brain to actually do it.
    - ProfessorLayton 2y ago
      The drug works by suppressing appetite. Eating less of the same things is still a dietary change. Exercise is recommended for everyone, regardless of weight.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  Sure, but so what? Until we can permanently change aspects of our brain, like our proclivity for addiction, then all interventions are bandaids on top of an underlying problem. Even behavioral changes like avoiding fast food don't fix the underlying problem in your brain. It's topical. It's amazing how the subject of Ozempic brings out such trivial claims uttered with a serious face.
jprete 2y ago
Ozempic does not simply limit your appetite, it seems to also affect how much reward your brain feels from different foods (and activities!), which would make it easier to override those anticipated rewards with conscious choices.

by asib 2y ago

MBCook 2y ago

No, but if it helps avoid the discussion because the very visible side effect is lessened, then in some ways things are worse. No squeaky wheel. I’m glad it’s available for those who need it. But I agree with GP that there is another discussion we need to be having too we’ve avoided for far far too long.

Blackthorn 2y ago
"visible side effect", dude, modern food is fortified to the hilt. If you're overeating on calories it's tough to have a deficiency in most places!
- MBCook 2y ago
  I wasn’t talking about nutrients at all. I was referring to the problems of over processed foods with lots of chemicals to increase shelf life and improve color and make them more addictive. I’m not against Ozempic. But without it maybe the continued expansion of the obesity epidemic would have pushed the discussion. If this accidentally prevents that discussion, I think that’s a problem. I’m not suggesting any change to the drug’s availability. Only concern over an important discussion.
  - Blackthorn 2y ago
    > But without it maybe the continued expansion of the obesity epidemic would have pushed the discussion. It's been forty years, how much longer would it take to admit that's not happening?
    - MBCook 2y ago
      Maybe it’s naïve. But it’s getting harder and harder to ignore, and worse and worse. As we export our food to more and more places, it starts to happen to them. I hear about people who take trips to Europe. They eat a ton, feel better, and lose weight. They get back home, start eating food here (even healthy food) and feel worse again. Gain it back despite eating less. We’ve tried ignoring it. We’ve tried blaming genetics, character, fat in foods, sugar, and willpower. But none of those have explained/fixed it. Because I don’t think that’s the problem. I want the evidence to keep piling up. I don’t want anyone to suffer unnecessarily, but I don’t want a new excuse to stop progress again. It doesn’t have to be either/or. But if we give up the chance for the debate because a new miracle drug “solved“ it nothing will change.

giantg2 2y ago

And the argument you are replying to is that it's just covering up a symptom and not addressing the root problem holistically. Ozempic isn't a fix, it's a bandaid.

sokoloff 2y ago
Bandaids serve a genuinely useful health-promoting purpose. I suspect we'll find the same is true of GLP-1s even if it only addresses part of the entire problem.
- giantg2 2y ago
  Only when applied correctly and with other interventions. Using ozempic without diet and exercise changes is like putting a bandaid on a .5" deep wound without sterilizing it.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    because ozempic reduces the food cravings, patients are able to implement and stick with a diet change. it's not like "put down that cheeseburger and have a salad" is something they haven't heard before and haven't internalized already, it's just their brain won't do it. ozempic gives them the space on their brain to actually do it.
  - ProfessorLayton 2y ago
    The drug works by suppressing appetite. Eating less of the same things is still a dietary change. Exercise is recommended for everyone, regardless of weight.
hombre_fatal 2y ago
Sure, but so what? Until we can permanently change aspects of our brain, like our proclivity for addiction, then all interventions are bandaids on top of an underlying problem. Even behavioral changes like avoiding fast food don't fix the underlying problem in your brain. It's topical. It's amazing how the subject of Ozempic brings out such trivial claims uttered with a serious face.

jprete 2y ago

Ozempic does not simply limit your appetite, it seems to also affect how much reward your brain feels from different foods (and activities!), which would make it easier to override those anticipated rewards with conscious choices.