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Classic bait and switch setup. Selling people the future in 2 years time with little to nothing to show for today. Timelines will slip, plans will change, softw

Classic bait and switch setup. Selling people the future in 2 years time with little to nothing to show for today. Timelines will slip, plans will change, software won‘t be ready, prices will change. And that doesn’t even account for where Waymo is in two years from now, or what the Chinese EV industry is able to pull off until then. Even this underwhelming event was originally announced on short notice to prop up perception when sales looked bad in April [1], delayed by two‘ish months, and then didn‘t even start on time. Oh, and implementing the robo taxi was a two-months project back then [1]. It‘s a ruse, folks. [1] https://fortune.com/2024/07/16/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi-delay-august-reveal-design/ https://fortune.com/2024/07/16/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi-dela...

InkCanon 2y ago
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bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
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- deleted 2y ago
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- deleted 2y ago
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- forgot-im-old 2y ago
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  - forgot-im-old 2y ago
    This basically explains all of Elon's seemingly contradictory behaviors.
- horns4lyfe 2y ago
  What useful product did Enron ever build?
  - andsoitis 2y ago
    > What useful product did Enron ever build? Electronic trading platform Enron Online, launched in 1999, allowed buyers and sellers to trade energy-related commodities like natural gas, electricity, and broadband capacity. Gas Bank Enron's Gas Bank stabilized prices, making natural gas more attractive to investors and helping lenders finance new gas generators. Financial markets Enron created financial markets for assets that were never previously traded on exchanges, such as natural gas, coal, and internet connections.
  - rchaud 2y ago
    Power plants, lots of them. Then they hired Wall St MBAs who thought executive compensation should be based on how well they can pump the stock. Sounds a lot like Tesla come to think of it.
davedx 2y ago
Also: > “The autonomous vehicles, we’re going to stop from operating on American roads, remember this,” Trump said.
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  Well, apart from tax cuts for the rich he never followed through with anything he said and his voters will never hold him accountable for anything, ever, so you can safely ignore every thing he says.
  - tobr 2y ago
    “Can’t trust anything” is not the same as “can safely ignore everything”. There’s nothing safe about it.
  - linotype 2y ago
    Abortion is now illegal in dozens of states.
    - drewcoo 2y ago
      13 states https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/abortion-access-tool/US https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/abortion-access-tool...
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Wasn't that due to the supreme court deciding it wasn't up to the federal government?
      - linotype 2y ago
        Who nominates the justices to the US Supreme Court?
        ben_w 2y ago
        De jure or de facto? One of the judges died in Obama's term, and senators explicitly declared they would not consider any nomination he made: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/history-stolen-supreme-court-seats-180962589/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/history-stolen-suprem...
lenkite 2y ago
Tesla Cybertruck was announced as vapourware in 2019 and got limited production only in 2023. It was also delayed. Wonder whether it would have been also considered "bait and switch setup" according to your stance.
- ben_w 2y ago
  Wasn't it also released at a significantly higher price than announced? """In 2019, Musk claimed that the Cybertruck would be available in late 2021, starting at $39,900. The date was later pushed to 2022, and eventually it was pushed to late 2023, with a starting price of $60,990.""" - according to the Wikipedia page. I'd definitely count that as bait and switch from the price change alone.
  - 15155 2y ago
    Ah right, the price should have remained the same despite the highest worldwide monetary inflation rates in the last 40 years. I can't imagine why would a company want to sell a product at a profit.
    - fabbari 2y ago
      Could you give some numbers to back it up? Considering the loss due to inflation from 2019 [1] I would have expected the truck to get to around $49,200. [1] https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2019?amount=1 https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2019?amount=1
      - 15155 2y ago
        What numbers am I backing up? Should the price have remained the same? Or was 2022 not the highest year for USD inflation in 40 years (see: your own source.) Is a company only allowed to increase their prices at a rate pegged to monetary inflation?
        guax 2y ago
wg0 2y ago
Elon has almost no credibility left for what he says. It's basically just a website at the moment with bunch of 3D renders which you too could get done from a web shop. Tesla has nothing new to offer and competition is catching up, EV adoption slowing down and such. If I had, I would gradually drop Tesla stock because it's going to go downhill if not rock bottom from here.
- acchow 2y ago
  > It's basically just a website at the moment with bunch of 3D renders which you too could get done from a web shop. They had 2 dozen vehicles with no steering wheels taking attendees around the venue. The bar was staffed by Optimus robots. “Basically a website”?
  - benterix 2y ago
    > They had 2 dozen vehicles with no steering wheels taking attendees around the venue. To quote a participant[0]: > After over 10 years of Full Self-Driving development, @Tesla is limited to a 20-30 acre geofenced 5mph ride on a preprogrammed, premapped and heavily rehearsed route with no traffic and no pedestrians. [0] https://x.com/realdanodowd/status/1844605093368512799 https://x.com/realdanodowd/status/1844605093368512799
    - valianteffort 2y ago
      There are countless videos on youtube of people recording their experience with FSD's open beta. It is probably 90% of the way there, if not more. Anyone who thinks Tesla won't get there first is peak delusional. Hate on Elon as much as you want, but Tesla are top-tier engineering. Real funny seeing a bunch of web devs on HN talk shit about Tesla's engineers too lmao
      - benterix 2y ago
        > Real funny seeing a bunch of web devs on HN talk shit about Tesla's engineers too lmao It's not "talk shit about Tesla's engineers", it's just a very hard problem to solve. It's easy to get it "most of the time" but extremely difficult to finish it. It's obvious it will take decades, not years to get us there. Whereas Musk insists he will solve it "this year", every year from 2014.
huijzer 2y ago
> with little to nothing to show for today Although they didn't "show" it on the event, Tesla self-driving is steadily improving each month. It is now also available on the Cybertruck, and the miles per intervention metric is steadily improving. You can find many videos on YouTube. Note that this are real cars on the real road.
- pavlov 2y ago
  Maybe in the US. It still does nothing in Europe, which is disappointing because the company happily took my money in February 2019 on the promise that this feature is imminent. I paid 7,500 euros for something that still doesn’t exist in any usable form. (I thought it would be good for my elderly parents who were the primary users of this car for a time.) It’s actively dangerous because it doesn’t even see speed limits correctly. The car will probably be at the end of its life before this feature ever ships. Sure, it’s a lesson for me. But don’t underestimate how much goodwill Musk has burned with his customers. I’m never buying another vehicle from this company, no matter the price or features. His political activism is just the cherry on the top of his poop-cake of lies.
  - f6v 2y ago
    > I paid 7,500 euros for something that still doesn’t exist in any usable form. And I thought people preordering games for 70€ were taking unnecessary risks. You guys took it to the whole new level.
    - pavlov 2y ago
      For sure. It wasn’t my usual type of purchase, but more emotionally driven. My dad, who is in his seventies and an early-adopter type, was really into Musk and FSD. I thought it would improve their quality of life to have access to this car, and I had recently found myself with the means to give back to my parents.
    - disillusioned 2y ago
      For a period, FSD was up to $15,000 USD... For heretofore still unshipped vaporware. And I say this as someone paying the $100/month for the current very very beta, sometimes absolutely terrifying form of it.
zeroq 2y ago
A propos Chinese EV. US is raising import tax on Chinese EV (from 10% up to 38.1%) in EU to help us combat the climat change better. /s
hn1986 2y ago
Like someone said before, he's lost all credibility. As someone who picked up FSD some years back, I'll prob never get a Tesla again based on some future promise.
telcodud 2y ago
The Tesla Robotaxi seems similar to the prototype car without steering wheel or brake pedals that Google announced (or demoed?) in 2014: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/technology/googles-next-phase-in-driverless-cars-no-brakes-or-steering-wheel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/technology/googles-next-p.... It seems likely that Waymo is 10 years ahead of Tesla in autonomous driving, and not 2 years.

InkCanon 2y ago

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bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago

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deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
forgot-im-old 2y ago
[flagged]
- forgot-im-old 2y ago
  This basically explains all of Elon's seemingly contradictory behaviors.
horns4lyfe 2y ago
What useful product did Enron ever build?
- andsoitis 2y ago
  > What useful product did Enron ever build? Electronic trading platform Enron Online, launched in 1999, allowed buyers and sellers to trade energy-related commodities like natural gas, electricity, and broadband capacity. Gas Bank Enron's Gas Bank stabilized prices, making natural gas more attractive to investors and helping lenders finance new gas generators. Financial markets Enron created financial markets for assets that were never previously traded on exchanges, such as natural gas, coal, and internet connections.
- rchaud 2y ago
  Power plants, lots of them. Then they hired Wall St MBAs who thought executive compensation should be based on how well they can pump the stock. Sounds a lot like Tesla come to think of it.

davedx 2y ago

Also: > “The autonomous vehicles, we’re going to stop from operating on American roads, remember this,” Trump said.

spiderfarmer 2y ago
Well, apart from tax cuts for the rich he never followed through with anything he said and his voters will never hold him accountable for anything, ever, so you can safely ignore every thing he says.
- tobr 2y ago
  “Can’t trust anything” is not the same as “can safely ignore everything”. There’s nothing safe about it.
- linotype 2y ago
  Abortion is now illegal in dozens of states.
  - drewcoo 2y ago
    13 states https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/abortion-access-tool/US https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/abortion-access-tool...
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Wasn't that due to the supreme court deciding it wasn't up to the federal government?
    - linotype 2y ago
      Who nominates the justices to the US Supreme Court?
      - ben_w 2y ago
        De jure or de facto? One of the judges died in Obama's term, and senators explicitly declared they would not consider any nomination he made: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/history-stolen-supreme-court-seats-180962589/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/history-stolen-suprem...

lenkite 2y ago

Tesla Cybertruck was announced as vapourware in 2019 and got limited production only in 2023. It was also delayed. Wonder whether it would have been also considered "bait and switch setup" according to your stance.

ben_w 2y ago
Wasn't it also released at a significantly higher price than announced? """In 2019, Musk claimed that the Cybertruck would be available in late 2021, starting at $39,900. The date was later pushed to 2022, and eventually it was pushed to late 2023, with a starting price of $60,990.""" - according to the Wikipedia page. I'd definitely count that as bait and switch from the price change alone.
- 15155 2y ago
  Ah right, the price should have remained the same despite the highest worldwide monetary inflation rates in the last 40 years. I can't imagine why would a company want to sell a product at a profit.
  - fabbari 2y ago
    Could you give some numbers to back it up? Considering the loss due to inflation from 2019 [1] I would have expected the truck to get to around $49,200. [1] https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2019?amount=1 https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2019?amount=1
    - 15155 2y ago
      What numbers am I backing up? Should the price have remained the same? Or was 2022 not the highest year for USD inflation in 40 years (see: your own source.) Is a company only allowed to increase their prices at a rate pegged to monetary inflation?
      - guax 2y ago

wg0 2y ago

Elon has almost no credibility left for what he says. It's basically just a website at the moment with bunch of 3D renders which you too could get done from a web shop. Tesla has nothing new to offer and competition is catching up, EV adoption slowing down and such. If I had, I would gradually drop Tesla stock because it's going to go downhill if not rock bottom from here.

acchow 2y ago
> It's basically just a website at the moment with bunch of 3D renders which you too could get done from a web shop. They had 2 dozen vehicles with no steering wheels taking attendees around the venue. The bar was staffed by Optimus robots. “Basically a website”?
- benterix 2y ago
  > They had 2 dozen vehicles with no steering wheels taking attendees around the venue. To quote a participant[0]: > After over 10 years of Full Self-Driving development, @Tesla is limited to a 20-30 acre geofenced 5mph ride on a preprogrammed, premapped and heavily rehearsed route with no traffic and no pedestrians. [0] https://x.com/realdanodowd/status/1844605093368512799 https://x.com/realdanodowd/status/1844605093368512799
  - valianteffort 2y ago
    There are countless videos on youtube of people recording their experience with FSD's open beta. It is probably 90% of the way there, if not more. Anyone who thinks Tesla won't get there first is peak delusional. Hate on Elon as much as you want, but Tesla are top-tier engineering. Real funny seeing a bunch of web devs on HN talk shit about Tesla's engineers too lmao
    - benterix 2y ago
      > Real funny seeing a bunch of web devs on HN talk shit about Tesla's engineers too lmao It's not "talk shit about Tesla's engineers", it's just a very hard problem to solve. It's easy to get it "most of the time" but extremely difficult to finish it. It's obvious it will take decades, not years to get us there. Whereas Musk insists he will solve it "this year", every year from 2014.

huijzer 2y ago

> with little to nothing to show for today Although they didn't "show" it on the event, Tesla self-driving is steadily improving each month. It is now also available on the Cybertruck, and the miles per intervention metric is steadily improving. You can find many videos on YouTube. Note that this are real cars on the real road.

pavlov 2y ago
Maybe in the US. It still does nothing in Europe, which is disappointing because the company happily took my money in February 2019 on the promise that this feature is imminent. I paid 7,500 euros for something that still doesn’t exist in any usable form. (I thought it would be good for my elderly parents who were the primary users of this car for a time.) It’s actively dangerous because it doesn’t even see speed limits correctly. The car will probably be at the end of its life before this feature ever ships. Sure, it’s a lesson for me. But don’t underestimate how much goodwill Musk has burned with his customers. I’m never buying another vehicle from this company, no matter the price or features. His political activism is just the cherry on the top of his poop-cake of lies.
- f6v 2y ago
  > I paid 7,500 euros for something that still doesn’t exist in any usable form. And I thought people preordering games for 70€ were taking unnecessary risks. You guys took it to the whole new level.
  - pavlov 2y ago
    For sure. It wasn’t my usual type of purchase, but more emotionally driven. My dad, who is in his seventies and an early-adopter type, was really into Musk and FSD. I thought it would improve their quality of life to have access to this car, and I had recently found myself with the means to give back to my parents.
  - disillusioned 2y ago
    For a period, FSD was up to $15,000 USD... For heretofore still unshipped vaporware. And I say this as someone paying the $100/month for the current very very beta, sometimes absolutely terrifying form of it.

zeroq 2y ago

A propos Chinese EV. US is raising import tax on Chinese EV (from 10% up to 38.1%) in EU to help us combat the climat change better. /s

hn1986 2y ago

Like someone said before, he's lost all credibility. As someone who picked up FSD some years back, I'll prob never get a Tesla again based on some future promise.

telcodud 2y ago

The Tesla Robotaxi seems similar to the prototype car without steering wheel or brake pedals that Google announced (or demoed?) in 2014: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/technology/googles-next-phase-in-driverless-cars-no-brakes-or-steering-wheel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/technology/googles-next-p.... It seems likely that Waymo is 10 years ahead of Tesla in autonomous driving, and not 2 years.