4 ms·

I think in general the deal in EU is terrible for young and not so young productive people. Taxes on income are high, real estate is very expensive as the land

I think in general the deal in EU is terrible for young and not so young productive people. Taxes on income are high, real estate is very expensive as the land is already taken by others (who usually pay very little tax on it). There is regulatory capture in many industries so you need to first spend years in school then more years to get various certificates and then often you need to work for basically free until you can jump to to the other side of the barricade and start exploiting newcomers. Taxes are high in Europe because we fund older generations and have oversized wasteful public sector. It has nothing to do with education (very low % of overall budget), healthcare (you are funding it mainly for old people paying multiple of you fair share if you have any kind of decent job) or "social safety nets". I hope more countries push against that. Portugal has fantastic weather and landscapes, same for Greece. Attract enough productive people who are fed up with being diary cows for pensioners and bureaucrats who never worked an honest day in their lives but are very qualified to spend your money and things will start happening there.

alephnerd 2y ago
> Taxes are high in Europe because we fund older generations and have oversized wasteful public sector Everyone seems to forget the Eurozone Crisis from 2008-2014 and how government debt skyrocketed. A lot of that debt was also at bad terms due to the high risk profile during that time period. The only easy lever a lot of European countries had to service their budgets was taxes, because a lot of other levels were handed off to the ECB.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  How much of that is still at high rates? Ireland’s (at one point the second-highest debt to gdp ratio in the eurozone) average cost of debt servicing is ~1.5%; at that rate you don’t _want_ to pay it off. At least in Ireland it was largely refinanced since the crisis; I’d guess it’s similar in the other high-debt nations (except possibly Greece, where refinancing might be difficult).
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    Portugal is in a similar boat to Greece. Ireland is very business and FDI friendly, has a fairly decent budget, and worked very hard to resolve it's debt problem in the 2010s. Ireland now has a ratio similar to that of Germany's, and Ireland has a credit rating of AAA for years now while Portugal only recently made it to BAA in the past year.
- bluecalm 2y ago
  But it's always taxes on productive middle+ class. It's never land value tax so we can free up land and use it more efficiently or higher taxes on polluting businesses as that would hurt their owners or wealth tax so people who actually benefit the most from stable/safe country pay. It must be young generation to pay for mistakes of the previous one.
EasyMark 2y ago
But life isn’t just about money, it’s about being able to enjoy it, and that is so much easier in countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Germany compared to say the USA. Obviously that’s a stated opinion and everyone wants different things from life.
- seydor 2y ago
  More than a million greeks have emigrated since the debt crisis. Life is enjoyable for tourists
- gnwn2 2y ago
  Yeah, man life isn't enjoyable in the USA, way better to be in Portugal makomg 10k/year with housing at 400k now, really enjoyable. Meanwhile I got a friend, married an American, moved there, was already making reasonable money here, just causually 4x his salary, is able to take vacations, heat his home, etc etc but yeah life not enjoyable in the USA
randomNumber7 2y ago
This is exactly what I think as a young and educated person.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Could reduce the number of bureaucrats, but supporting the elderly is part of having a stable somewhat equitable society. The post Ww2 boom and the birth rate decreasing has made that a greater burden on the younger generation than it would otherwise be.
- bluecalm 2y ago
  "Sorry just because older generation didn't have enough children you will now be forced to give up 50+% of your income to support them". That will surely encourage young people to have their own children. They will pay even more! 60% is about how much you would pay in Germany on 100k EUR salary - 50% in income tax + social security + healthcare tax and then 19% VAT on most things you buy. In my view it's just immoral to place this burden on young people.

alephnerd 2y ago

> Taxes are high in Europe because we fund older generations and have oversized wasteful public sector Everyone seems to forget the Eurozone Crisis from 2008-2014 and how government debt skyrocketed. A lot of that debt was also at bad terms due to the high risk profile during that time period. The only easy lever a lot of European countries had to service their budgets was taxes, because a lot of other levels were handed off to the ECB.

rsynnott 2y ago
How much of that is still at high rates? Ireland’s (at one point the second-highest debt to gdp ratio in the eurozone) average cost of debt servicing is ~1.5%; at that rate you don’t _want_ to pay it off. At least in Ireland it was largely refinanced since the crisis; I’d guess it’s similar in the other high-debt nations (except possibly Greece, where refinancing might be difficult).
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Portugal is in a similar boat to Greece. Ireland is very business and FDI friendly, has a fairly decent budget, and worked very hard to resolve it's debt problem in the 2010s. Ireland now has a ratio similar to that of Germany's, and Ireland has a credit rating of AAA for years now while Portugal only recently made it to BAA in the past year.
bluecalm 2y ago
But it's always taxes on productive middle+ class. It's never land value tax so we can free up land and use it more efficiently or higher taxes on polluting businesses as that would hurt their owners or wealth tax so people who actually benefit the most from stable/safe country pay. It must be young generation to pay for mistakes of the previous one.

EasyMark 2y ago

But life isn’t just about money, it’s about being able to enjoy it, and that is so much easier in countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Germany compared to say the USA. Obviously that’s a stated opinion and everyone wants different things from life.

seydor 2y ago
More than a million greeks have emigrated since the debt crisis. Life is enjoyable for tourists
gnwn2 2y ago
Yeah, man life isn't enjoyable in the USA, way better to be in Portugal makomg 10k/year with housing at 400k now, really enjoyable. Meanwhile I got a friend, married an American, moved there, was already making reasonable money here, just causually 4x his salary, is able to take vacations, heat his home, etc etc but yeah life not enjoyable in the USA

randomNumber7 2y ago

This is exactly what I think as a young and educated person.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

Could reduce the number of bureaucrats, but supporting the elderly is part of having a stable somewhat equitable society. The post Ww2 boom and the birth rate decreasing has made that a greater burden on the younger generation than it would otherwise be.

bluecalm 2y ago
"Sorry just because older generation didn't have enough children you will now be forced to give up 50+% of your income to support them". That will surely encourage young people to have their own children. They will pay even more! 60% is about how much you would pay in Germany on 100k EUR salary - 50% in income tax + social security + healthcare tax and then 19% VAT on most things you buy. In my view it's just immoral to place this burden on young people.