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There’s a million standalone CMS’s (headless) and standalone site builders (ranging from pure technical to no-code to no-design) and even sitebuilders with robu

There’s a million standalone CMS’s (headless) and standalone site builders (ranging from pure technical to no-code to no-design) and even sitebuilders with robust CMS’s attached these days (eg. Webflow). There’s zero reason to use Wordpress in 2024 imo.

doublerabbit 2y ago
> There’s zero reason to use Wordpress IMO in 2024. Many folk, companies don't have the resources nor skillset to set up a LAMP equivalent for such. If you want to be the next wonder-host for $CMS be my guest. I recommend Kirby. No database required and only uses text files for its backend. https://getkirby.com/ https://getkirby.com/
- dylan604 2y ago
  don't write off those that setup a WAMP and then make it public facing. the time to get a LAMP setup running is pretty close to <1min after a simple double-click on an installer. getting a sane/secure LAMP setup running is an entirely different story that you did not specify as being a qualification.
  - doublerabbit 2y ago
    What I was implying was the cost of services, who are you going to host with? Cost of maintaining, whos going to keep up with latest CVEs? Cost of domain, registrars, SSL certificates. Cost of all adds up. A non-tech IT business has minimal resources for all of that. They want "pay $, click, it works". Not a dedicated IT worker to serve all of above. If you take say a tutor, a bassist, they don't want all that overhead. They want a platform where they can advertise their tutoring costs, a contact form and be done with it. WP isn't ideal but it works. For someone who can host WAMP/LAMP, fine. But for the average folk, it's not. There was a reason why WP gained popularity to begin with and it was because it was easy to adapt and junior PHP developers were plentiful, just as junior python developers are now.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      > If you take say a tutor, a bassist, they don't want all that overhead. They want a platform where they can advertise their tutoring costs, a contact form and be done with it. WP isn't ideal but it works. Yeah and especially if they want to update it themselves. Wordpress makes that easy even for the non techies so the customer can do it themselves. Of course the big Achilles heel of WordPress is the plugins and their vulnerabilities. So really you still need someone technical to keep it up to date, which is often forgotten.
- pembrook 2y ago
  No database required, but you’re still tied to being a “wonder-host” for Kirby. I’ve used it before, and many clients sites are now dead because their web host didn’t want to support old PHP versions anymore. Any cloud-based CMS doesn’t have that problem. That, plus, Kirby just isn’t robust enough to compare to something like Webflow.
  - manuelmoreale 2y ago
    I’m not entirely sure why you’re comparing Kirby to Webflow. They’re completely different tools built with completely different target audiences in mind. Also “many clients sites are now dead because their web host didn’t want to support old PHP versions anymore” Isn’t the solution to that as simple as upgrading your CMS?
    - pembrook 2y ago
      The comment I was responding to was criticizing the idea of having to provide hosting support for other CMS's. That fact that you constantly have to upgrade Kirby and pay new licensing fees (and bill your customers for this) because no web host wants to support an old version of PHP...betrays the idea that Kirby is a way out of this. Sure it doesn't have a database to hassle with like Wordpress so it's better in that regard. But it's still objectively worse than any cloud platform. If you're on a cloud subscription platform you're completely hands off (no upgrades necessary) and the client now has permanent support from said subscription they're paying for. It's fundamentally a better model than dumping websites on clients and letting them slowly rot away while they forget how to do anything with them.
      - manuelmoreale 2y ago
        > If you're on a cloud subscription platform you're completely hands off (no upgrades necessary) Sure you’re just letting someone else do the job but at a significant higher price. It’s a trade off like everything else. In some situations a cloud solution is probably good. But in other cases it might be way too expensive in the long run. So it’s a balance and every situation is different.
- rob 2y ago
  So does Statamic, based on Laravel.

doublerabbit 2y ago

> There’s zero reason to use Wordpress IMO in 2024. Many folk, companies don't have the resources nor skillset to set up a LAMP equivalent for such. If you want to be the next wonder-host for $CMS be my guest. I recommend Kirby. No database required and only uses text files for its backend. https://getkirby.com/ https://getkirby.com/

dylan604 2y ago
don't write off those that setup a WAMP and then make it public facing. the time to get a LAMP setup running is pretty close to <1min after a simple double-click on an installer. getting a sane/secure LAMP setup running is an entirely different story that you did not specify as being a qualification.
- doublerabbit 2y ago
  What I was implying was the cost of services, who are you going to host with? Cost of maintaining, whos going to keep up with latest CVEs? Cost of domain, registrars, SSL certificates. Cost of all adds up. A non-tech IT business has minimal resources for all of that. They want "pay $, click, it works". Not a dedicated IT worker to serve all of above. If you take say a tutor, a bassist, they don't want all that overhead. They want a platform where they can advertise their tutoring costs, a contact form and be done with it. WP isn't ideal but it works. For someone who can host WAMP/LAMP, fine. But for the average folk, it's not. There was a reason why WP gained popularity to begin with and it was because it was easy to adapt and junior PHP developers were plentiful, just as junior python developers are now.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    > If you take say a tutor, a bassist, they don't want all that overhead. They want a platform where they can advertise their tutoring costs, a contact form and be done with it. WP isn't ideal but it works. Yeah and especially if they want to update it themselves. Wordpress makes that easy even for the non techies so the customer can do it themselves. Of course the big Achilles heel of WordPress is the plugins and their vulnerabilities. So really you still need someone technical to keep it up to date, which is often forgotten.
pembrook 2y ago
No database required, but you’re still tied to being a “wonder-host” for Kirby. I’ve used it before, and many clients sites are now dead because their web host didn’t want to support old PHP versions anymore. Any cloud-based CMS doesn’t have that problem. That, plus, Kirby just isn’t robust enough to compare to something like Webflow.
- manuelmoreale 2y ago
  I’m not entirely sure why you’re comparing Kirby to Webflow. They’re completely different tools built with completely different target audiences in mind. Also “many clients sites are now dead because their web host didn’t want to support old PHP versions anymore” Isn’t the solution to that as simple as upgrading your CMS?
  - pembrook 2y ago
    The comment I was responding to was criticizing the idea of having to provide hosting support for other CMS's. That fact that you constantly have to upgrade Kirby and pay new licensing fees (and bill your customers for this) because no web host wants to support an old version of PHP...betrays the idea that Kirby is a way out of this. Sure it doesn't have a database to hassle with like Wordpress so it's better in that regard. But it's still objectively worse than any cloud platform. If you're on a cloud subscription platform you're completely hands off (no upgrades necessary) and the client now has permanent support from said subscription they're paying for. It's fundamentally a better model than dumping websites on clients and letting them slowly rot away while they forget how to do anything with them.
    - manuelmoreale 2y ago
      > If you're on a cloud subscription platform you're completely hands off (no upgrades necessary) Sure you’re just letting someone else do the job but at a significant higher price. It’s a trade off like everything else. In some situations a cloud solution is probably good. But in other cases it might be way too expensive in the long run. So it’s a balance and every situation is different.
rob 2y ago
So does Statamic, based on Laravel.