4 ms·

Elon Musk doesn't have an army, and Brazil does. So the guys with guns win? China made it clear that boycotting a country doesn't accomplish anything. Nobody

Elon Musk doesn't have an army, and Brazil does. So the guys with guns win? China made it clear that boycotting a country doesn't accomplish anything. Nobody supporting Elon on speech is upset that he bluffed and lost... that's life.

anigbrowl 2y ago
Nobody is pointing a gun at him, they just told him that he couldn't do business there until he was compliant with the legal requirements. I am so sick of people hyperbolizing everything.
- aeronaut80 2y ago
  > I am so sick of people hyperbolizing everything. Ironic
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    Yes, I am using the same rhetorical technique ironically to point out how annoying it is.
- seanw444 2y ago
  Devil's advocate: what the government says only matters because of fear of repercussion if they're not heeded. Because they're the guys with the guns, and the (increasingly under Lula) exclusive right to use them.
JohnMakin 2y ago
> Nobody supporting Elon on speech is upset that he bluffed and lost.. I mean, is there anything Elon could do that would upset Elon supporters? This sentence is basically a tautology.
snakeyjake 2y ago
> Nobody supporting Elon on speech The fact that anyone takes what Musk says about free speech at face value is astounding to me. The number of shenanigans that have occurred on Twitter to make some speech both freer and less free depending on the ideological bent of its operator is so voluminous that it cannot be easily counted.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  I don't really know what it is that Musk does on his platform or why he does it. The Twitter-Brazil incident however is about free speech. Brazilian constitution says that any and all censorship of political speech is prohibited. These were political accounts. This judge, a government official, ordered their banishment from the platform. Political censorship.
  - snakeyjake 2y ago
    I’m not familiar with the specifics but a cursory examination indicates that the accounts were publishing libel. Libel is not now, has never been, and will never be protected speech. It also seems that Twitter failed on at least one occasion to appoint legal representation and I don’t know if that means counsel or a business point of contact so if this was whatever Brazil’s version of a default judgement is, that makes it even dumber. Regardless, if someone (in this case Musk) throws their lot in with people who unambiguously attempted a coup d’etat in the name of free speech, they should be examined more critically than usual.
    - matheusmoreira 2y ago
      My examination indicated it was all due to "fake news" as determined by these judges. This is the first time I'm encountering the libel/defamation argument. I suppose it's impossible to know since I didn't witness it in real time and everything is secret. I don't believe what happened was a coup attempt. They occupied Brasília buildings, that's the standard brazillian protest, happened many times before. They wanted the military to seize power, and the military refused. They didn't try to seize power for themselves, they wanted the military to rule over them. That's a valid political position. A coup attempt is the military actually trying something. An actual coup is the military succeeding at it.
matheusmoreira 2y ago
> Elon Musk doesn't have an army, and Brazil does. You're kidding, right? Brazilian army? What a joke. Besides, Musk is friends with US politicians. Recently showed up in a photo besides Trump himself. After this Twitter debacle, I've seen news about some republicans proposing laws that would deny the passports of foreign officials which implement censorship. A law that more or less targets these judges. A law that is essentially beneath the notice of most americans. It caused these brazilian judges here to basically throw a temper tantrum in public. "Unacceptable", one of them called it. As if there was even a single thing he could do about it. Every year the US puts us in a little copyright infringement watchlist, so it's not like they don't care when our actions affect the american economy. I wonder how they feel about a brazilian judge outright stealing millions from american companies via completely arbitrary fines for not complying with orders whose legality is questionable.

anigbrowl 2y ago

Nobody is pointing a gun at him, they just told him that he couldn't do business there until he was compliant with the legal requirements. I am so sick of people hyperbolizing everything.

aeronaut80 2y ago
> I am so sick of people hyperbolizing everything. Ironic
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  Yes, I am using the same rhetorical technique ironically to point out how annoying it is.
seanw444 2y ago
Devil's advocate: what the government says only matters because of fear of repercussion if they're not heeded. Because they're the guys with the guns, and the (increasingly under Lula) exclusive right to use them.

JohnMakin 2y ago

> Nobody supporting Elon on speech is upset that he bluffed and lost.. I mean, is there anything Elon could do that would upset Elon supporters? This sentence is basically a tautology.

snakeyjake 2y ago

> Nobody supporting Elon on speech The fact that anyone takes what Musk says about free speech at face value is astounding to me. The number of shenanigans that have occurred on Twitter to make some speech both freer and less free depending on the ideological bent of its operator is so voluminous that it cannot be easily counted.

matheusmoreira 2y ago
I don't really know what it is that Musk does on his platform or why he does it. The Twitter-Brazil incident however is about free speech. Brazilian constitution says that any and all censorship of political speech is prohibited. These were political accounts. This judge, a government official, ordered their banishment from the platform. Political censorship.
- snakeyjake 2y ago
  I’m not familiar with the specifics but a cursory examination indicates that the accounts were publishing libel. Libel is not now, has never been, and will never be protected speech. It also seems that Twitter failed on at least one occasion to appoint legal representation and I don’t know if that means counsel or a business point of contact so if this was whatever Brazil’s version of a default judgement is, that makes it even dumber. Regardless, if someone (in this case Musk) throws their lot in with people who unambiguously attempted a coup d’etat in the name of free speech, they should be examined more critically than usual.
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    My examination indicated it was all due to "fake news" as determined by these judges. This is the first time I'm encountering the libel/defamation argument. I suppose it's impossible to know since I didn't witness it in real time and everything is secret. I don't believe what happened was a coup attempt. They occupied Brasília buildings, that's the standard brazillian protest, happened many times before. They wanted the military to seize power, and the military refused. They didn't try to seize power for themselves, they wanted the military to rule over them. That's a valid political position. A coup attempt is the military actually trying something. An actual coup is the military succeeding at it.

matheusmoreira 2y ago

> Elon Musk doesn't have an army, and Brazil does. You're kidding, right? Brazilian army? What a joke. Besides, Musk is friends with US politicians. Recently showed up in a photo besides Trump himself. After this Twitter debacle, I've seen news about some republicans proposing laws that would deny the passports of foreign officials which implement censorship. A law that more or less targets these judges. A law that is essentially beneath the notice of most americans. It caused these brazilian judges here to basically throw a temper tantrum in public. "Unacceptable", one of them called it. As if there was even a single thing he could do about it. Every year the US puts us in a little copyright infringement watchlist, so it's not like they don't care when our actions affect the american economy. I wonder how they feel about a brazilian judge outright stealing millions from american companies via completely arbitrary fines for not complying with orders whose legality is questionable.