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What did you end up replacing it with? I've done no research, but I wonder what the risk tradeoff is between a tiny amount of lead in contact with my drinking
by maples37 2y ago
What did you end up replacing it with?
I've done no research, but I wonder what the risk tradeoff is between a tiny amount of lead in contact with my drinking water (assuming copper pipes joined together with lead-based solder, not lead-free solder) versus the new plastic pipes that are becoming standard. I'm sure PEX is designed so that it doesn't leach plastic nastiness into the water, but I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that after a few decades it starts breaking down anyway and suddenly we have a whole new toxin in our drinking water and we need to replace half of the pipes in America again.
- thecompilr 2y agoPEX isn’t new, it has been in use for at least 50 years by now
- TSiege 2y agoI would assume they do leach microplastics and nanoplastics and require third party proof that they do not. From what I can find on the internet plastics leach micro/nanoplastics period. https://safepipingmatters.org/plastic-pipes-microplastics-impacts-on-human-health/ https://safepipingmatters.org/plastic-pipes-microplastics-im...
- rpnx 2y agolead is extremely toxic even in small doses, microplastics are comparatively a non-issue.
- drewcon 2y agoYeah, I can't believe this has to be said.
- hammock 2y agoThere is no indoor plumbing without tradeoffs. Copper, PVC, CPVC, PEX, etc all leach just different chemicals. Maybe copper with lead-free solder is best? Very expensive though
- 1970-01-01 2y agoYou're going to find 'health problems' with every pipe material. Even stainless steel will contain trace amounts of lead or another toxic metal.
- prometheus76 2y agoAnd if you have hard water, stainless steel will still oxidize (rust).
- bell-cot 2y ago> You're going to find 'health problems' with every pipe material... IIR, larger chemistry laboratories often use glass & quartz pipes to distribute distilled water. Though the direct costs of such a system are relatively high.
- rectang 2y agoBefore then, those of us with homes that aren't 100% rodent-proof forever have to factor in just how much mice and rats luuuuuv chewing on PEX hot water pipes. https://www.bobvila.com/articles/rodents-chew-pex-pipe/ https://www.bobvila.com/articles/rodents-chew-pex-pipe/ PEX is easy to work with and cheap up front. The cost and risk are shifted onto the future owners.
- mschuster91 2y agoHere in Europe, PEX is perfectly normal. The key difference is that we build our homes out of brick and mortar or outright solid concrete instead of wood, cardboard and glasswool, so pests have it much, much more difficult to cause damage.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> we build our homes out of brick and mortar or outright solid concrete instead of wood I mean yes, you chopped down your forests millennia ago ;).
- ahartmetz 2y agoNah, according to what I've read, we really ran out of forest (wood) and had to start replanting them about 500 years ago, give or take a factor of two.
- tourmalinetaco 2y agoDoesn’t Paris have an annual rat culling since their population of rats is like 10mil? And London is almost as bad as New York (which is also mostly stonework). The material hardly matters for rodents, as stone will make its own holes over time for them to get into, and the sewers in Europe are even older and in parts less maintained than the US.
- 2y ago
- camgunz 2y agoYeah I'm too lazy to look up a source now, but I did look it up and both types of PEX will leech microplastics into your water. It sounds like a big facepalm, and it kind of is, but it's not a crazy idea to filter your water at the taps: you probably only have 2-6 of them anyway. I'm a fan of the whole-home water filter, but yeah then you've gotta be confident about your pipes.
- rpnx 2y agoI'll take microplastics over lead any day.
- msandford 2y agoThe dose makes the poison. I'd choose micro plastics vs an equivalent mass dose of lead. If it was 1000x the amount of micro plastics vs lead it's maybe less obvious which is the less bad poison. I'd have to do some research at that point. I think framing it this way it's obvious that lead is worse than micro plastics. But when you go from lead soldered copper pipes to PEX I don't know what the doses you get from each are.
- bawolff 2y agoI think its very obvious 1000x microplastics is much better than the lead. Maybe if you said a billion times.
- msandford 2y agoOkay what's the safe dose of micro plastics? What's the evidence for that dose being safe? Do we have 100 years of data? The reason we know there isn't a safe dose of lead is a lot of study. Every month there's a new study about some crazy micro plastics things where they got found in some new place. We're in the early days of figuring out how bad it is. We don't really know yet.
- camgunz 2y agoSure, but (maybe someone can jump in here) isn't copper pipe + water soluble lead-free flux + lead-free solder better? Copper piping is more expensive--dunno when you'd make your money back over tap filters, but broadly I don't think you have to choose between lead and microplastics in your water from your piping.
- tibbon 2y agoCopper pipes + lead free (silver) solder is also an option.
- laluser 2y agoReplaced it with higher-end pex. Yes, there is a trade-off there, but to me the effects of lead over long periods of time are very scary. I also have a filter for our actual drinking water that is able to filter some micro plastics as well.
- Kirby64 2y agoThe dose makes the poison here. How much lead is permissible before it’s bad? The answer is, very very very little. In comparison, you get copper contamination from copper pipes (especially if the water is too acidic), however the body handles a little copper just fine. It doesn’t build up in the body unlike lead. Then you’re left with plastics: PEX or PVC. As of yet, there’s some potential concerns with microplastics in general… but that is from all the tiny plastic particles found everywhere, not solid pieces of pipe. And there hasn’t really be any evidence that it causes any specific known issue. If it was some giant problem (like lead in drinking water!) then the magnitude of effect would be much more obvious.
- mystified5016 2y agoYeah, the 'safe' level of lead is essentially zero. I think on the order of nanograms per liter. Common wisdom is "there is no safe level of lead".
- Kirby64 2y agoSure, agreed. I’m just pointing out that the GP quibbles “what about microplastics” without comparing the known levels of lead (ie even extremely small amounts) that are unsafe. And it’s pretty obvious that high levels of lead lead to developmental issues. The same cannot currently be said of microplastics.
- ars 2y agoThe underground feeder to your house is likely to be HDPE actually - which is chemically similar to PEX. Both are made from Polyethylene, which is the exact same stuff oil (including food), gas, wax, natural gas, etc is made off. i.e. you body handles that all the time.
- sebastiennight 2y agoWait... when is the last time you've drank: - polyethylene oil? - gas? - natural gas? - wax (I'm assuming candle wax)? I understand you don't mean "drink" when you say our body "handles" it, but you do realize we don't make food from PET, nor do we usually "handle" gas and natural gas in any form of direct contact?* * with the fun exception of a brief craze in my high school years where people would mix hard alcohol with gasoline to make cocktails "stronger". That's another story though
- r00fus 2y agoThe gold standard is copper + lead-free solder for incoming pipes, and PEX for sewer/outgoing. I wouldn't use PEX for fresh water pipes.
- sokoloff 2y agoPEX for DWV (drain/waste/vent)? I’ve seen ABS and PVC (and, of course, cast iron) for DWV, but don’t think I’ve ever heard of Pex for that.
- EasyMark 2y agoI know there are at least two types of PEX, if you do replace pipes make sure you use the highest quality stuff you can get because PEX isn’t just PEX