5 ms·

I don't do much "smart home" stuff, but could someone explain the value of allowing your vacuum cleaner talk to the internet? Does it use cloud resources to pro

by ta1243 2y ago

I don't do much "smart home" stuff, but could someone explain the value of allowing your vacuum cleaner talk to the internet? Does it use cloud resources to process stuff remotely like I believe Alexa does?

insane_dreamer 2y ago
I'm guessing it transmits telemetry to help the manufacturer improve the robot's spatial awareness algorithm (and images for the same reason), and users probably consent to this without realizing it when they "agree" to the 15-page TOS
- ta1243 2y ago
  OK, I was going for value to the customer. Obviously selling your data to the highest bidder is a given nowadays.
larrik 2y ago
To control it via app. Scheduling and such.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  Perhaps. But it has its own little robot brain, and I have a pocket supercomputer along with a LAN to connect betwixt these two things. I know that realtime clock modules are useful for scheduling and are not free, but that doesn't mean that a device needs to call home in order to start sweeping the floor at a particular time.
  - Loughla 2y ago
    Honestly I think you're overestimating most people. The concept of a LAN is a non-starter for many folks. My measure are my in-laws. They like technology but don't understand it. My mother in law does not know what LAN means or how to access it. These things phone home for the apps that lets normal people like that run them.
    - ssl-3 2y ago
      Your in-laws are smart enough to understand that they can't use their robo-vac without having "the wiffies" turned on.
    - ta1243 2y ago
      Your inlaws can presumably print from their phone, using MDNS to find local printers, and sending the traffic direct to the printer. They can presumably also do airplay operating in exactly the same way. They don't need to know terms like LAN or MDNS or Bonjour or whatever.
  - ta1243 2y ago
    It can talk to the ntp server the network dhcp server gives out. If the dhcp doesn't give an NTP server then sure, try to talk to one (which should be configurable form the onboard webserver)
    - ssl-3 2y ago
      Or it can set the clock locally from the particular app instance used for the initial setup. If that's not accurate enough due to drift, then it can also rejigger the clock during subsequent runs of the app. And that's probably good enough. It's just a robo-vac -- nobody is going to be late for work or even annoyed if it drifts a bit and a sequence starts at 7:02:37 instead of 7:00:00.
ajsnigrutin 2y ago
Drives around, lidar draws a floor plan with all the obstacles, you can then mark zones (don't vacuum here, do extra vacuuming over there,...), set up schedules (vacuum the hallway daily, bedroom every two days, ...), etc. But lidar is not a camera and exposes much less than a video feed does... why does a vacuum need a camera is a different question.
- BeetleB 2y ago
  I have an old school Roomba - no Internet/Wifi capability. None of what you said is that helpful. Obstacles: Not sure what kind...? It's either a large enough obstacle that it will bounce off and continue vacuuming, or small enough that you should probably pick up. Zones: Solved with the virtual walls that come with the old style Roombas. Schedules: My Roomba has it - no need for networking.
  - bmicraft 2y ago
    Obstacles: Mine always get stuck under the toilet because it almost fits and it's a very oblique angle
    - BeetleB 2y ago
      Ah - I don't consider them as "obstacles", but "traps". For me, it sometimes gets stuck under certain chairs. There is a path for it to "escape", but about 25% of the time it gives up. So when I do that room, I have to rearrange it so the chairs are not in the path. As a result, I rarely do that room. I doubt their "smartness" will figure out that it may get stuck under those chairs. But even if it did, I wouldn't allow it to communicate home.
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  >why does a vacuum need a camera is a different question. Cheaper than a lidar, although I’d never buy a camera one.
- ta1243 2y ago
  So expose this on an webserver on the device itself, advertise it via mdns, have the app talk to it directly from the same network, or via a custom IP for people with more complex needs.
Jach 2y ago
Apparently some of them feature two-way communication so you can for example talk to your pets.
- Loughla 2y ago
  That seems like a really good way to get my dog to absolutely savage a smart speaker.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  I'm looking for one that barks to non-pets
stavros 2y ago
Almost all modern devices use internet access for one thing: Because, in the modern internet, it's basically impossible to reliably initiate a p2p connection.
amatecha 2y ago
Most of them don't allow any amount of app control whatsoever unless they have an internet connection. LAN-only app interaction is apparently basically non-existent in this market, for some reason. You can usually use them without giving a wifi connection, but then you can do nothing more than "push a button on the robot to start cleaning the house" and it just runs an automatic/default scheme -- no customization. Basically the reality is, because you're held hostage by the very few manufacturers making these also gating most functionality behind "let us surveil your entire home permanently".

by ta1243 2y ago

insane_dreamer 2y ago

I'm guessing it transmits telemetry to help the manufacturer improve the robot's spatial awareness algorithm (and images for the same reason), and users probably consent to this without realizing it when they "agree" to the 15-page TOS

ta1243 2y ago
OK, I was going for value to the customer. Obviously selling your data to the highest bidder is a given nowadays.

larrik 2y ago

To control it via app. Scheduling and such.

ssl-3 2y ago
Perhaps. But it has its own little robot brain, and I have a pocket supercomputer along with a LAN to connect betwixt these two things. I know that realtime clock modules are useful for scheduling and are not free, but that doesn't mean that a device needs to call home in order to start sweeping the floor at a particular time.
- Loughla 2y ago
  Honestly I think you're overestimating most people. The concept of a LAN is a non-starter for many folks. My measure are my in-laws. They like technology but don't understand it. My mother in law does not know what LAN means or how to access it. These things phone home for the apps that lets normal people like that run them.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    Your in-laws are smart enough to understand that they can't use their robo-vac without having "the wiffies" turned on.
  - ta1243 2y ago
    Your inlaws can presumably print from their phone, using MDNS to find local printers, and sending the traffic direct to the printer. They can presumably also do airplay operating in exactly the same way. They don't need to know terms like LAN or MDNS or Bonjour or whatever.
- ta1243 2y ago
  It can talk to the ntp server the network dhcp server gives out. If the dhcp doesn't give an NTP server then sure, try to talk to one (which should be configurable form the onboard webserver)
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    Or it can set the clock locally from the particular app instance used for the initial setup. If that's not accurate enough due to drift, then it can also rejigger the clock during subsequent runs of the app. And that's probably good enough. It's just a robo-vac -- nobody is going to be late for work or even annoyed if it drifts a bit and a sequence starts at 7:02:37 instead of 7:00:00.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

Drives around, lidar draws a floor plan with all the obstacles, you can then mark zones (don't vacuum here, do extra vacuuming over there,...), set up schedules (vacuum the hallway daily, bedroom every two days, ...), etc. But lidar is not a camera and exposes much less than a video feed does... why does a vacuum need a camera is a different question.

BeetleB 2y ago
I have an old school Roomba - no Internet/Wifi capability. None of what you said is that helpful. Obstacles: Not sure what kind...? It's either a large enough obstacle that it will bounce off and continue vacuuming, or small enough that you should probably pick up. Zones: Solved with the virtual walls that come with the old style Roombas. Schedules: My Roomba has it - no need for networking.
- bmicraft 2y ago
  Obstacles: Mine always get stuck under the toilet because it almost fits and it's a very oblique angle
  - BeetleB 2y ago
    Ah - I don't consider them as "obstacles", but "traps". For me, it sometimes gets stuck under certain chairs. There is a path for it to "escape", but about 25% of the time it gives up. So when I do that room, I have to rearrange it so the chairs are not in the path. As a result, I rarely do that room. I doubt their "smartness" will figure out that it may get stuck under those chairs. But even if it did, I wouldn't allow it to communicate home.
whywhywhywhy 2y ago
>why does a vacuum need a camera is a different question. Cheaper than a lidar, although I’d never buy a camera one.
ta1243 2y ago
So expose this on an webserver on the device itself, advertise it via mdns, have the app talk to it directly from the same network, or via a custom IP for people with more complex needs.

Jach 2y ago

Apparently some of them feature two-way communication so you can for example talk to your pets.

Loughla 2y ago
That seems like a really good way to get my dog to absolutely savage a smart speaker.
Scoundreller 2y ago
I'm looking for one that barks to non-pets

stavros 2y ago

Almost all modern devices use internet access for one thing: Because, in the modern internet, it's basically impossible to reliably initiate a p2p connection.

amatecha 2y ago

Most of them don't allow any amount of app control whatsoever unless they have an internet connection. LAN-only app interaction is apparently basically non-existent in this market, for some reason. You can usually use them without giving a wifi connection, but then you can do nothing more than "push a button on the robot to start cleaning the house" and it just runs an automatic/default scheme -- no customization. Basically the reality is, because you're held hostage by the very few manufacturers making these also gating most functionality behind "let us surveil your entire home permanently".