6 ms·

This is great; for your next trick, can you please figure out how to install MacOS on an iPad so that we can all finally get the dang computer we want Apple to

This is great; for your next trick, can you please figure out how to install MacOS on an iPad so that we can all finally get the dang computer we want Apple to build?

makeitdouble 2y ago
You can start with Windows XP https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/22/24200536/windows-xp-ipad-pc-emulation-utm-se https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/22/24200536/windows-xp-ipad-...
- walterbell 2y ago
  > It took two and a half hours for my iPad to crawl through installation. Jailbroken Apple M1 iPads with iOS16 can use the iOS hypervisor to run VMs without overheating their devices or waiting hours to boot. Still, we can thank Apple for small mercies like UTM, ashell and iSH. As a science experiment, Apple could silently launch a "VM store" with $100 VMs, accessible only via hidden URL. How badly do Apple customers want to use the iPad hardware they already purchased? Could Apple customers be extorted into paying for VMs? Will anyone ever ship a competitive tablet running Linux?
  - acchow 2y ago
    Apple definitely does not want bad reviews on their iPads because the VMs they are selling are crashing more often than their other offerings. Any product Apple sells for actual $ would have meet Apple’s standards of support and customer service, or they would be deteriorating their Goodwill. Except their charging cables. Apple actively trades goodwill for those margins.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      You do realize that Apple sells Macs, right?
      - lostlogin 2y ago
        While accurate, this misses the point. The chip is very similar to that in the Mac and it’s frustrating to have Apple prevent it being used more fully.
        saagarjha 2y ago
        I agree. But this has nothing to do with Macs crashing more often.
    - walterbell 2y ago
      > the VMs they are selling are crashing VMs would be a subset of existing iOS/macOS. VMs are more uniform targets than bare-metal, less likely to crash. Think Microsoft CAL (client access license) paper entitlements. Or papal certificates of indulgence, https://theconversation.com/the-catholic-view-on-indulgences-and-how-they-work-today-193066 https://theconversation.com/the-catholic-view-on-indulgences... Software margins with iPad-as-DRM-dongle, investors would rejoice! Broadcom and Qualcomm would be envious.
- tambourine_man 2y ago
  Without JIT, it’s more a prof-of-concept than a useful tool, IMO.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    With the current iPad limitations, however slow it gets, running any arbitrary code locally can be a big deal. If you wanted to debug and print out your original papercraft without remoting into another machine, that will probably be good enough.
    - eru 2y ago
      > [...], running any arbitrary code locally can be a big deal. Well, unless you are using JavaScript?
    - walterbell 2y ago
      > running any arbitrary code locally can be a big deal yt-dlp on iPad via iSH is surprising useful.
worstspotgain 2y ago
If they called it a Macbook Air with an upside-down bulge and a detachable keyboard, would that be just as well?
- walterbell 2y ago
  With touch screen, iOS and macOS?
  - worstspotgain 2y ago
    Touch screen but no iOS.
  - SheinhardtWigCo 2y ago
    macOS when the keyboard is attached, and iOS when it is not, with instantaneous switching. One can dream… but really, this is not all that far-fetched
    - kuhsaft 2y ago
      What would happen to the macOS applications when switching to iOS? iOS applications would be fine in macOS-mode (Mac Catalyst already exists). But, there isn't a good way to make macOS applications usable in iOS-mode.
      - walterbell 2y ago
        Start with macOS CLI VM. Give it a couple of years and see how customers use it. Or allow Linux/FreeBSD VMs.
    - diffeomorphism 2y ago
      We cureently have that on pixel devices, where you can just run windows if you want https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/02/14/android-13-virtualization-lets-pixel-6-run-windows-11-linux-distributions/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/02/14/android-13-virtualiz... We had that with linuxonDex or maruos or motorola or.. People say they want that, but when they actually do, it completely flops.
striking 2y ago
Prior research section reads: > [Zhuowei Zhang] concluded that (GUI) macOS applications cannot run on iOS—but (graphical) iOS apps can run on macOS. Mac Catalyst seems to work, expectedly, only one way.
azinman2 2y ago
What is it about the iPad you want with macOS? It has one port (which is largely used for power), no built in keyboard, an incompatible input device (touch) by default, and often smaller screens. What’s the appeal?
- walterbell 2y ago
  This question has been endlessly asked and answered, https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/22/22396449/apple-ipad-pro-macbook-air-macos-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/22/22396449/apple-ipad-pro-m... The answer is obvious to Apple iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard customers: MOBILE MICROTASKING No, dear Apple, it will not compete with your precious Macbook revenue, because an iPad is not a laptop. Your customers who are pleading for un-crippled iPads will keep buying desktops and laptops. But it will be life-changing for on-demand portable anytime anywhere access to OSS code and professional apps, for last-minute edits, quick checks during video calls, testing-while-learning and countless other scenarios. iPad enables flexible computing, i.e. unlimited use cases -- and revenue! Still the only mobile device with 4:3 HiDPI screen. Apple continues to pour billions into science experiments like Vision Pro (iPad-on-Skull) and anemic cloud services, while refusing to improve the workflows of millions of customers who are willing to pay for repackaging of existing technology already sold by Apple. Fortunately, the industry has not been standing still while Apple squandered a decade of feature-frozen tablet supremacy. Google is now shipping VMs on both phones and tablets. > At a privately held event, Google recently demonstrated a special build of Chromium OS — code-named “ferrochrome” — running in a virtual machine on a Pixel 8. However, Chromium OS wasn’t shown running on the phone’s screen itself. Rather, it was projected to an external display, which is possible because Google recently enabled display output on its Pixel 8 series... Hopefully, Google will offer the ability to run Chrome OS alongside Android in a future device
  - kuhsaft 2y ago
    As much as I would like macOS on iPads, running macOS applications on an iPad without the Magic Keyboard would suck. Windows can do it though, so it's not really an excuse. But, in Microsoft's case, it's sort of different. They had Windows 10 Mobile for tablets which is the closest thing to iPadOS, I suppose. Windows 10 Mobile couldn't run Win32 applications, similar to how iPadOS can't run macOS applications. Microsoft killed Windows 10 Mobile... Implementation-wise though, it's a big effort for Apple. They can't just make macOS applications runnable on iOS. Something like reverse Mac Catalyst for iPadOS wouldn't work due to how complicated and different macOS is compared to iPadOS. It would probably have to be a full on emulation of macOS on iPadOS for applications to run. So, it would seem like starting with macOS then implementing iPadOS on-top would be better than starting with iPadOS and implementing macOS, which is literally what Mac Catalyst is. So now, Apple has to make sure that all iPadOS APIs work with Mac Catalyst (they don't yet) and they have to do something to make the UX work better when switching between touch and M&K. Bringing it back to Microsoft and Windows now. It's quite similar actually. Think of Windows 10 Mobile = iPadOS, UWP = iPadOS apps, Win32 = macOS apps. Microsoft killed Windows 10 Mobile and replaced it with full-on Windows 10. Windows 10 can run UWP apps. Similarly, Apple will likely have to kill iPadOS and fully implement compatibility with iPad apps on Mac for macOS to ever be on iPads.
miramba 2y ago
Oh, 1000 times this! Literally my research subject in the last weeks, a tablet with a dev OS. Sizewise I love the iPad Mini, but iPadOS is useless. Looking now at a Surface Go: slightly too large. If anyone has another suggestion for a small tablet with Win11 (I know there is none with MacOS), please post it here. Will order from China if needed.
- Joeri 2y ago
  What about the GPD Pocket?
- ankurdhama 2y ago
  Try this: https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-v3 https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-v3
  - sgerenser 2y ago
    Small tablet? It has a 14” screen.
- creole_wither 2y ago
  GPD Pocket 3. It has an 8" screen. It is laptop form factor but the screen can be folded 180 and flat over the keyboard for use as a tablet. Spec page says it can run Windows 11 but comes with Windows 10. https://gpd.hk/gpdpocket3 https://gpd.hk/gpdpocket3
  - miramba 2y ago
    Thank you and Joeri - this is indeed the closest to what I am looking for.
jbverschoor 2y ago
The iPad Pro is the fastest machine out there (M4)
amelius 2y ago
Can we please get iOS on Linux so we don't have to buy the phone to develop for it?
guax 2y ago
Or add 4g to the MacBook air and 80% of people will stop asking for MacOS iPads.

This is great; for your next trick, can you please figure out how to install MacOS on an iPad so that we can all finally get the dang computer we want Apple to build?

makeitdouble 2y ago

You can start with Windows XP https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/22/24200536/windows-xp-ipad-pc-emulation-utm-se https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/22/24200536/windows-xp-ipad-...

walterbell 2y ago
> It took two and a half hours for my iPad to crawl through installation. Jailbroken Apple M1 iPads with iOS16 can use the iOS hypervisor to run VMs without overheating their devices or waiting hours to boot. Still, we can thank Apple for small mercies like UTM, ashell and iSH. As a science experiment, Apple could silently launch a "VM store" with $100 VMs, accessible only via hidden URL. How badly do Apple customers want to use the iPad hardware they already purchased? Could Apple customers be extorted into paying for VMs? Will anyone ever ship a competitive tablet running Linux?
- acchow 2y ago
  Apple definitely does not want bad reviews on their iPads because the VMs they are selling are crashing more often than their other offerings. Any product Apple sells for actual $ would have meet Apple’s standards of support and customer service, or they would be deteriorating their Goodwill. Except their charging cables. Apple actively trades goodwill for those margins.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    You do realize that Apple sells Macs, right?
    - lostlogin 2y ago
      While accurate, this misses the point. The chip is very similar to that in the Mac and it’s frustrating to have Apple prevent it being used more fully.
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        I agree. But this has nothing to do with Macs crashing more often.
  - walterbell 2y ago
    > the VMs they are selling are crashing VMs would be a subset of existing iOS/macOS. VMs are more uniform targets than bare-metal, less likely to crash. Think Microsoft CAL (client access license) paper entitlements. Or papal certificates of indulgence, https://theconversation.com/the-catholic-view-on-indulgences-and-how-they-work-today-193066 https://theconversation.com/the-catholic-view-on-indulgences... Software margins with iPad-as-DRM-dongle, investors would rejoice! Broadcom and Qualcomm would be envious.
tambourine_man 2y ago
Without JIT, it’s more a prof-of-concept than a useful tool, IMO.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  With the current iPad limitations, however slow it gets, running any arbitrary code locally can be a big deal. If you wanted to debug and print out your original papercraft without remoting into another machine, that will probably be good enough.
  - eru 2y ago
    > [...], running any arbitrary code locally can be a big deal. Well, unless you are using JavaScript?
  - walterbell 2y ago
    > running any arbitrary code locally can be a big deal yt-dlp on iPad via iSH is surprising useful.

worstspotgain 2y ago

If they called it a Macbook Air with an upside-down bulge and a detachable keyboard, would that be just as well?

walterbell 2y ago
With touch screen, iOS and macOS?
- worstspotgain 2y ago
  Touch screen but no iOS.
- SheinhardtWigCo 2y ago
  macOS when the keyboard is attached, and iOS when it is not, with instantaneous switching. One can dream… but really, this is not all that far-fetched
  - kuhsaft 2y ago
    What would happen to the macOS applications when switching to iOS? iOS applications would be fine in macOS-mode (Mac Catalyst already exists). But, there isn't a good way to make macOS applications usable in iOS-mode.
    - walterbell 2y ago
      Start with macOS CLI VM. Give it a couple of years and see how customers use it. Or allow Linux/FreeBSD VMs.
  - diffeomorphism 2y ago
    We cureently have that on pixel devices, where you can just run windows if you want https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/02/14/android-13-virtualization-lets-pixel-6-run-windows-11-linux-distributions/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/02/14/android-13-virtualiz... We had that with linuxonDex or maruos or motorola or.. People say they want that, but when they actually do, it completely flops.

striking 2y ago

Prior research section reads: > [Zhuowei Zhang] concluded that (GUI) macOS applications cannot run on iOS—but (graphical) iOS apps can run on macOS. Mac Catalyst seems to work, expectedly, only one way.

azinman2 2y ago

What is it about the iPad you want with macOS? It has one port (which is largely used for power), no built in keyboard, an incompatible input device (touch) by default, and often smaller screens. What’s the appeal?

walterbell 2y ago
This question has been endlessly asked and answered, https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/22/22396449/apple-ipad-pro-macbook-air-macos-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/22/22396449/apple-ipad-pro-m... The answer is obvious to Apple iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard customers: MOBILE MICROTASKING No, dear Apple, it will not compete with your precious Macbook revenue, because an iPad is not a laptop. Your customers who are pleading for un-crippled iPads will keep buying desktops and laptops. But it will be life-changing for on-demand portable anytime anywhere access to OSS code and professional apps, for last-minute edits, quick checks during video calls, testing-while-learning and countless other scenarios. iPad enables flexible computing, i.e. unlimited use cases -- and revenue! Still the only mobile device with 4:3 HiDPI screen. Apple continues to pour billions into science experiments like Vision Pro (iPad-on-Skull) and anemic cloud services, while refusing to improve the workflows of millions of customers who are willing to pay for repackaging of existing technology already sold by Apple. Fortunately, the industry has not been standing still while Apple squandered a decade of feature-frozen tablet supremacy. Google is now shipping VMs on both phones and tablets. > At a privately held event, Google recently demonstrated a special build of Chromium OS — code-named “ferrochrome” — running in a virtual machine on a Pixel 8. However, Chromium OS wasn’t shown running on the phone’s screen itself. Rather, it was projected to an external display, which is possible because Google recently enabled display output on its Pixel 8 series... Hopefully, Google will offer the ability to run Chrome OS alongside Android in a future device
- kuhsaft 2y ago
  As much as I would like macOS on iPads, running macOS applications on an iPad without the Magic Keyboard would suck. Windows can do it though, so it's not really an excuse. But, in Microsoft's case, it's sort of different. They had Windows 10 Mobile for tablets which is the closest thing to iPadOS, I suppose. Windows 10 Mobile couldn't run Win32 applications, similar to how iPadOS can't run macOS applications. Microsoft killed Windows 10 Mobile... Implementation-wise though, it's a big effort for Apple. They can't just make macOS applications runnable on iOS. Something like reverse Mac Catalyst for iPadOS wouldn't work due to how complicated and different macOS is compared to iPadOS. It would probably have to be a full on emulation of macOS on iPadOS for applications to run. So, it would seem like starting with macOS then implementing iPadOS on-top would be better than starting with iPadOS and implementing macOS, which is literally what Mac Catalyst is. So now, Apple has to make sure that all iPadOS APIs work with Mac Catalyst (they don't yet) and they have to do something to make the UX work better when switching between touch and M&K. Bringing it back to Microsoft and Windows now. It's quite similar actually. Think of Windows 10 Mobile = iPadOS, UWP = iPadOS apps, Win32 = macOS apps. Microsoft killed Windows 10 Mobile and replaced it with full-on Windows 10. Windows 10 can run UWP apps. Similarly, Apple will likely have to kill iPadOS and fully implement compatibility with iPad apps on Mac for macOS to ever be on iPads.

miramba 2y ago

Oh, 1000 times this! Literally my research subject in the last weeks, a tablet with a dev OS. Sizewise I love the iPad Mini, but iPadOS is useless. Looking now at a Surface Go: slightly too large. If anyone has another suggestion for a small tablet with Win11 (I know there is none with MacOS), please post it here. Will order from China if needed.

Joeri 2y ago
What about the GPD Pocket?
ankurdhama 2y ago
Try this: https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-v3 https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-v3
- sgerenser 2y ago
  Small tablet? It has a 14” screen.
creole_wither 2y ago
GPD Pocket 3. It has an 8" screen. It is laptop form factor but the screen can be folded 180 and flat over the keyboard for use as a tablet. Spec page says it can run Windows 11 but comes with Windows 10. https://gpd.hk/gpdpocket3 https://gpd.hk/gpdpocket3
- miramba 2y ago
  Thank you and Joeri - this is indeed the closest to what I am looking for.

jbverschoor 2y ago

The iPad Pro is the fastest machine out there (M4)

amelius 2y ago

Can we please get iOS on Linux so we don't have to buy the phone to develop for it?

guax 2y ago

Or add 4g to the MacBook air and 80% of people will stop asking for MacOS iPads.