12 ms·

There was an article posted on here[1] a while back that I only just found again, introducing the term "expedience." The idea was that we think we live in a wor

There was an article posted on here[1] a while back that I only just found again, introducing the term "expedience." The idea was that we think we live in a world where people have to have "the best" sweater, be on "the best" social network, drive "the best" car, etc. But when you look at what really WINS, it's not the best, it's the most "expedient" - i.e. sufficiently good, with built-in social proof, inoculated of buyer's remorse, etc. Is Amazon "the best" place to go shopping? No, you might find better prices on individual items if you put a little more work into it, but it's the most expedient. Is Facebook/Instagram/Tiktok/insert here "the best" social network? No, but it is the most accessible, easy-to-use, useful one. Is a Tesla (perhaps outdated example since X) "the best" car - no, but it is the most expedient. There is a tangent here that intersects with refinement culture as well. Among the group of society that (subconsciously) care about these "expedient" choices, you see everyone and everything start to look the same [1]https://tinaja.computer/2017/10/13/expedience.html https://tinaja.computer/2017/10/13/expedience.html

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
> Is a Tesla (perhaps outdated example since X) "the best" car - no, but it is the most expedient. The most expedient car? Or BEV in the US?
- hammock 2y ago
  Fair point... it was a coastal California-centric point but there is plenty of nuance or adjustment to be made. At some point in the 90's we'd probably have said "Silver E class Mercedes" is the most expedient luxury sedan, if you wanted a different example.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    The early to mid 90s E class aka W124 definitely went down in history as one of the best quality and best designed cars ever made. Other luxury cars may be faster, more fun, or have more features… but the W124 probably is “the best” if you’re looking just at build quality and well thought out design details. As a car nerd though, I never felt the need to buy one because they just seem fairly boring- other than a few rare models most were 4 door sedans with automatics, fairly small engines, and soft non sporty suspension.
  - adastra22 2y ago
    I think Toyota would have gotten your point across better. Tesla is most certainly not expedient. It is a luxury purchase.
    - foobazgt 2y ago
      It's definitely in a class above Toyota, but once you account for gas savings, the LR RWD costs about as much as the cheapest Corolla you can buy. People bagged on Tesla being too expensive when their $35K car was only available over the phone. Now, adjusted for inflation, the LR RWD is $28K and comes with 100mi additional range to boot. On top of that, it's $13K below the average car purchase price. IMO, it destroys its competitors in the value market, and the media is being awfully silent about it. I guess it's far too easy to focus on Elon instead.
      - marxisttemp 2y ago
        “In a class above Toyota” in what sense? Certainly not in reliability or interior quality or CarPlay compatibility…
      - adastra22 2y ago
        Really depends on where you live and what your electric rates are. These is my breakdown (Corolla comes out ahead as cheaper to operate): https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/14rj3fp/tesla_charging_cost_in_bay_area_vs_a_hybrids_mpg/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/14rj3fp/tesla_...
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- KerrAvon 2y ago
  Neither. Going by the parent poster's gauge, the most "expedient" is probably Lucid; better engineering, better range, and better service.
  - KerrAvon 2y ago
    but it's really not what "expedient" means
jprete 2y ago
Related - thinking takes a lot of energy, so people prefer options that are cheap to evaluate. This definitely contributes to the preference for expedient options.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
If you include the cost of gathering information, the expedient solution may in fact be the best.
dkarl 2y ago
"Expedient" is a common (or at least not rare) English word that means something like "practical and effective even if not directly attending to higher or deeper considerations." For example, if two students in a class are having frequent confrontations that bring learning in the class to a halt, and attempts by teachers and counselors to address their conflict directly haven't been effective, the expedient solution might be to place them in separate classes. The "right thing" would be to address the problem on the social and emotional level, but if continued efforts to do so is likely to result in continued disruption to the students' education, it might be better to separate them. "Expedient" acknowledges the trade-off, while emphasizing the positive outcome. Often a course of action is described as "expedient" when it seems to dodge an issue of morality or virtue. For example, if we solve climate change with geoengineering instead of by addressing thoughtless consumerism, corporate impunity, and lack of international accountability, many people would feel frustrated or let down by the solution because it would solve the problem without addressing the moral shortcomings that led to the problem. The word expedient stresses the positive side of this, the effectiveness and practicality of the solution, while acknowledging that it leaves other, perhaps deeper issues unaddressed.
- circlefavshape 2y ago
  > For example, if we solve climate change with geoengineering instead of by addressing thoughtless consumerism, corporate impunity, and lack of international accountability, many people would feel frustrated or let down by the solution because it would solve the problem without addressing the moral shortcomings that led to the problem. Oof. Now I understand something I didn't before
  - downWidOutaFite 2y ago
    No you don't because there is no expedient solution.
  - MikeTheGreat 2y ago
    Are you sure? No offence, but I don't think there's anything to understand here. If we could solve climate change without "addressing thoughtless consumerism, corporate impunity, and lack of international accountability" we would all be f'ing _thrilled_. As I type this Hurricane Helene just destroyed a good chunk of inland North Carolina (!!!) and Hurricane Wilton was just upgraded to a "category 5" storm. If we could solve climate change the easy way we'd all be _thrilled_, because then we'd actually solve climate change.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
lisper 2y ago
> Is Amazon "the best" place to go shopping? No, you might find better prices on individual items if you put a little more work into it, but it's the most expedient. It's not just that. Every time you do business with a new web site you assume additional risk. Amazon is a known quantity. You can be pretty sure that they are not going to outright scam you, and they aren't going to be hacked by script kiddies. There is a significant risk of getting a counterfeit item, but they have a very liberal return policy, so the real cost to you in this case is a minute or two to get a return code and possibly a trip to the nearest Whole Foods to drop it off. Amazon sucks in many ways, but at least their suckage is a known quantity. Predictability has significant value.
- katbyte 2y ago
  Yep it’s the return policy that allowed me to gamble on items that may or may not be real/functional vs spending a ton of time to find one elsewhere that maybe is, but if it’s not it’ll be hard to return
WalterBright 2y ago
> you might find better prices on individual items if you put a little more work into it That extra work costs you money, too. Calculate how much your job pays you per hour, then you can deduce the $cost of spending more time to get a better deal.
- contagiousflow 2y ago
  Are you removing paid working time in doing the extra work? If not it is just an opportunity cost
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    In my line of work, yes.
- Gigachad 2y ago
  This is a fairly crappy methodology though because the vast majority of people are not substituting paid working time with researching buying things online. So it hasn't "cost" them anything other than their free time which is far more complex than an hourly rate. Maybe they enjoy researching products and in that situation, it wasn't a waste of time at all.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Exactly. I always hate these "your time is worth your hourly wage" arguments. They're often used to argue against things like changing the oil in your car, fixing a clogged drain, or DIYing anything. Your time is only worth money if you'd otherwise be working at that rate, which is not the case for the vast majority of humans.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Saving money is the same thing as earning it. Are you better off spending an hour to save $100 or an hour to save $10? I once spent 2 hours negotiating the purchase of a car. It saved $5000. That works out to $2500 an hour. Was it worth it? Hell ya! I've also worked hourly jobs in the past. There were often opportunities to work more hours or overtime. People often have side hustles, too.
d0mine 2y ago
There is also "satisficing" (vs. maximizing). Your model of the world is not perfect so instead of trying to find a globally optimal solution, you are satisfied with a local optimum that exceeds some threshold that has to suffices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing
- hammock 2y ago
  Love that. Well-done marketing* can orient a consumer into a preferred "local optimum territory" , leading to satisfiction(?) and sales * For example, the limited selection of candy at the checkout aisle. All you have to do is get your brand in there. (Placement on the 4P's) * Or, "best credit card for travelers." By offering travel rewards, you can acquire a group of cardmembers even if, e.g. a more valuable cashback card could have gotten them even greater benefits (Promotion on the 4P's)
RcouF1uZ4gsC 2y ago
>Is Amazon "the best" place to go shopping? The number one reason I use Amazon, is not for the best prices, but because of their return policy. Amazon returns are actually often more painless than physical store returns. Being able to return something predictably and easily outweighs a small difference in price.
b3ing 2y ago
I might argue it’s the one most known by the most people, the “best” takes time to get there, Google was better than yahoo but it took years to become #1 in terms of hits
aulin 2y ago
> inoculated of buyer's remorse Non native here. What's the meaning of inoculated here? It's not the first time that I struggle to parse this word. In italian it keeps the original latin meaning and can be translated with "injected with". You could inoculate a vaccine but you could also inoculate a poison, so it does not carry the immunity meaning by default. English (US?) as far as I can tell use it as a synonym of "immune", is that so?
- avidiax 2y ago
  I think the author means "vaccinated". They mean that they've been made resistant to buyer's remorse.
- pmg101 2y ago
  It should be "inoculated against" but the meaning is clear. A vaccine inoculates you against a disease by a physical mechanism: that is, it prevents you from getting that disease (to a greater or lesser degree). Metaphorically being inoculated against something means it can no longer hurt you. For instance, maybe by not owning a car you're inoculated against vehicle depreciation. Or by wearing the same simple but quality outfit every day you're inoculated against the vagaries of fashion.
rpastuszak 2y ago
Reminds me of this quote by Bauman: https://untested.sonnet.io/notes/proteus-uncertainty-is-the-only-certainty/ https://untested.sonnet.io/notes/proteus-uncertainty-is-the-...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

> Is a Tesla (perhaps outdated example since X) "the best" car - no, but it is the most expedient. The most expedient car? Or BEV in the US?

hammock 2y ago
Fair point... it was a coastal California-centric point but there is plenty of nuance or adjustment to be made. At some point in the 90's we'd probably have said "Silver E class Mercedes" is the most expedient luxury sedan, if you wanted a different example.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  The early to mid 90s E class aka W124 definitely went down in history as one of the best quality and best designed cars ever made. Other luxury cars may be faster, more fun, or have more features… but the W124 probably is “the best” if you’re looking just at build quality and well thought out design details. As a car nerd though, I never felt the need to buy one because they just seem fairly boring- other than a few rare models most were 4 door sedans with automatics, fairly small engines, and soft non sporty suspension.
- adastra22 2y ago
  I think Toyota would have gotten your point across better. Tesla is most certainly not expedient. It is a luxury purchase.
  - foobazgt 2y ago
    It's definitely in a class above Toyota, but once you account for gas savings, the LR RWD costs about as much as the cheapest Corolla you can buy. People bagged on Tesla being too expensive when their $35K car was only available over the phone. Now, adjusted for inflation, the LR RWD is $28K and comes with 100mi additional range to boot. On top of that, it's $13K below the average car purchase price. IMO, it destroys its competitors in the value market, and the media is being awfully silent about it. I guess it's far too easy to focus on Elon instead.
    - marxisttemp 2y ago
      “In a class above Toyota” in what sense? Certainly not in reliability or interior quality or CarPlay compatibility…
    - adastra22 2y ago
      Really depends on where you live and what your electric rates are. These is my breakdown (Corolla comes out ahead as cheaper to operate): https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/14rj3fp/tesla_charging_cost_in_bay_area_vs_a_hybrids_mpg/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/14rj3fp/tesla_...
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
KerrAvon 2y ago
Neither. Going by the parent poster's gauge, the most "expedient" is probably Lucid; better engineering, better range, and better service.
- KerrAvon 2y ago
  but it's really not what "expedient" means

jprete 2y ago

Related - thinking takes a lot of energy, so people prefer options that are cheap to evaluate. This definitely contributes to the preference for expedient options.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

If you include the cost of gathering information, the expedient solution may in fact be the best.

dkarl 2y ago

"Expedient" is a common (or at least not rare) English word that means something like "practical and effective even if not directly attending to higher or deeper considerations." For example, if two students in a class are having frequent confrontations that bring learning in the class to a halt, and attempts by teachers and counselors to address their conflict directly haven't been effective, the expedient solution might be to place them in separate classes. The "right thing" would be to address the problem on the social and emotional level, but if continued efforts to do so is likely to result in continued disruption to the students' education, it might be better to separate them. "Expedient" acknowledges the trade-off, while emphasizing the positive outcome. Often a course of action is described as "expedient" when it seems to dodge an issue of morality or virtue. For example, if we solve climate change with geoengineering instead of by addressing thoughtless consumerism, corporate impunity, and lack of international accountability, many people would feel frustrated or let down by the solution because it would solve the problem without addressing the moral shortcomings that led to the problem. The word expedient stresses the positive side of this, the effectiveness and practicality of the solution, while acknowledging that it leaves other, perhaps deeper issues unaddressed.

circlefavshape 2y ago
> For example, if we solve climate change with geoengineering instead of by addressing thoughtless consumerism, corporate impunity, and lack of international accountability, many people would feel frustrated or let down by the solution because it would solve the problem without addressing the moral shortcomings that led to the problem. Oof. Now I understand something I didn't before
- downWidOutaFite 2y ago
  No you don't because there is no expedient solution.
- MikeTheGreat 2y ago
  Are you sure? No offence, but I don't think there's anything to understand here. If we could solve climate change without "addressing thoughtless consumerism, corporate impunity, and lack of international accountability" we would all be f'ing _thrilled_. As I type this Hurricane Helene just destroyed a good chunk of inland North Carolina (!!!) and Hurricane Wilton was just upgraded to a "category 5" storm. If we could solve climate change the easy way we'd all be _thrilled_, because then we'd actually solve climate change.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

lisper 2y ago

> Is Amazon "the best" place to go shopping? No, you might find better prices on individual items if you put a little more work into it, but it's the most expedient. It's not just that. Every time you do business with a new web site you assume additional risk. Amazon is a known quantity. You can be pretty sure that they are not going to outright scam you, and they aren't going to be hacked by script kiddies. There is a significant risk of getting a counterfeit item, but they have a very liberal return policy, so the real cost to you in this case is a minute or two to get a return code and possibly a trip to the nearest Whole Foods to drop it off. Amazon sucks in many ways, but at least their suckage is a known quantity. Predictability has significant value.

katbyte 2y ago
Yep it’s the return policy that allowed me to gamble on items that may or may not be real/functional vs spending a ton of time to find one elsewhere that maybe is, but if it’s not it’ll be hard to return

WalterBright 2y ago

> you might find better prices on individual items if you put a little more work into it That extra work costs you money, too. Calculate how much your job pays you per hour, then you can deduce the $cost of spending more time to get a better deal.

contagiousflow 2y ago
Are you removing paid working time in doing the extra work? If not it is just an opportunity cost
- WalterBright 2y ago
  In my line of work, yes.
Gigachad 2y ago
This is a fairly crappy methodology though because the vast majority of people are not substituting paid working time with researching buying things online. So it hasn't "cost" them anything other than their free time which is far more complex than an hourly rate. Maybe they enjoy researching products and in that situation, it wasn't a waste of time at all.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Exactly. I always hate these "your time is worth your hourly wage" arguments. They're often used to argue against things like changing the oil in your car, fixing a clogged drain, or DIYing anything. Your time is only worth money if you'd otherwise be working at that rate, which is not the case for the vast majority of humans.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Saving money is the same thing as earning it. Are you better off spending an hour to save $100 or an hour to save $10? I once spent 2 hours negotiating the purchase of a car. It saved $5000. That works out to $2500 an hour. Was it worth it? Hell ya! I've also worked hourly jobs in the past. There were often opportunities to work more hours or overtime. People often have side hustles, too.

d0mine 2y ago

There is also "satisficing" (vs. maximizing). Your model of the world is not perfect so instead of trying to find a globally optimal solution, you are satisfied with a local optimum that exceeds some threshold that has to suffices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing

hammock 2y ago
Love that. Well-done marketing* can orient a consumer into a preferred "local optimum territory" , leading to satisfiction(?) and sales * For example, the limited selection of candy at the checkout aisle. All you have to do is get your brand in there. (Placement on the 4P's) * Or, "best credit card for travelers." By offering travel rewards, you can acquire a group of cardmembers even if, e.g. a more valuable cashback card could have gotten them even greater benefits (Promotion on the 4P's)

RcouF1uZ4gsC 2y ago

>Is Amazon "the best" place to go shopping? The number one reason I use Amazon, is not for the best prices, but because of their return policy. Amazon returns are actually often more painless than physical store returns. Being able to return something predictably and easily outweighs a small difference in price.

b3ing 2y ago

I might argue it’s the one most known by the most people, the “best” takes time to get there, Google was better than yahoo but it took years to become #1 in terms of hits

aulin 2y ago

> inoculated of buyer's remorse Non native here. What's the meaning of inoculated here? It's not the first time that I struggle to parse this word. In italian it keeps the original latin meaning and can be translated with "injected with". You could inoculate a vaccine but you could also inoculate a poison, so it does not carry the immunity meaning by default. English (US?) as far as I can tell use it as a synonym of "immune", is that so?

avidiax 2y ago
I think the author means "vaccinated". They mean that they've been made resistant to buyer's remorse.
pmg101 2y ago
It should be "inoculated against" but the meaning is clear. A vaccine inoculates you against a disease by a physical mechanism: that is, it prevents you from getting that disease (to a greater or lesser degree). Metaphorically being inoculated against something means it can no longer hurt you. For instance, maybe by not owning a car you're inoculated against vehicle depreciation. Or by wearing the same simple but quality outfit every day you're inoculated against the vagaries of fashion.

rpastuszak 2y ago

Reminds me of this quote by Bauman: https://untested.sonnet.io/notes/proteus-uncertainty-is-the-only-certainty/ https://untested.sonnet.io/notes/proteus-uncertainty-is-the-...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]