5 ms·

looking at how it played out with javascript one can't but agree. (edit: I mean it unironically)

TacticalCoder 2y ago
Yup first thing I thought. That pathetic piece of crap conceived in basically 15 days (not kidding)... BUT it is what we have on the front-end for web apps so there's that. JavaScript is the mediocre turd I love to hate.
- karel-3d 2y ago
  And it keeps being polished and improved to the point it's almost not a turd, and now has types sort of, and much better engines, and now there are ARM machines that are literally designed to run it faster, and now most of your actual PC applications are written in it. But honestly it's kind of refreshing to see the original node.js presentation, where using javascript is sort of a side-note. He wanted to use callback-heavy language and JS fit the bill https://youtu.be/EeYvFl7li9E https://youtu.be/EeYvFl7li9E
  - GiorgioG 2y ago
    It will always be a turd. Typescript is a nice illusion, but underneath is still the same turd.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      To me WASM is the wildcard. It lets other languages infect the Javascript host organism.
- Johanx64 2y ago
  Problem with Javascript is that it is not confined to webbrowsers and webapps, but it and it's associated business models (SaaS) finds it's way everywhere, at first desktop apps got enshitified by it, then all sorts of smart devices, and all the way to embedded systems in cars with their laggy sloppy UIs everywhere. It probably is the most severe case of "worse is better" I've experienced so far.
api 2y ago
JavaScript really illustrates the ultimate path-dependence of evolution. It got widely deployed during a boom time and therefore we are stuck with it forever.
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  But I feel like other languages that we were de-facto "stuck with" in certain domains boomed and then busted - i.e. Lua, Pearl, etc
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Javascript is the only language which straddled the Client Server Gap. If it weren't for Node, Javascript would not have been as popular.
    - api 2y ago
      There was something long ago called GWT -- Google Web Toolkit -- that tried to make Java into that language by having it compile to JavaScript. It actually worked decently well, but was due to Java needlessly verbose. WASM lets us run other languages efficiently in the browser but that just opens the field to a lot of languages, not one language to rule them all.
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
        Also GWT apps were pretty slow to load and start, and were very "app"-like as opposed to web-page like at a time when that was not as familiar as it is today. That's how I remember it anyway. And pretty heavy, developer wise, at a time when "update a file on the FTP" was still normal.
    - bigstrat2003 2y ago
      It's still absolutely baffling to me that anyone is willing to run JS server side. There are so many options which are much better suited, why are people willing to jam that square peg into the round hole?

Yup first thing I thought. That pathetic piece of crap conceived in basically 15 days (not kidding)... BUT it is what we have on the front-end for web apps so there's that. JavaScript is the mediocre turd I love to hate.

karel-3d 2y ago
And it keeps being polished and improved to the point it's almost not a turd, and now has types sort of, and much better engines, and now there are ARM machines that are literally designed to run it faster, and now most of your actual PC applications are written in it. But honestly it's kind of refreshing to see the original node.js presentation, where using javascript is sort of a side-note. He wanted to use callback-heavy language and JS fit the bill https://youtu.be/EeYvFl7li9E https://youtu.be/EeYvFl7li9E
- GiorgioG 2y ago
  It will always be a turd. Typescript is a nice illusion, but underneath is still the same turd.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    To me WASM is the wildcard. It lets other languages infect the Javascript host organism.
Johanx64 2y ago
Problem with Javascript is that it is not confined to webbrowsers and webapps, but it and it's associated business models (SaaS) finds it's way everywhere, at first desktop apps got enshitified by it, then all sorts of smart devices, and all the way to embedded systems in cars with their laggy sloppy UIs everywhere. It probably is the most severe case of "worse is better" I've experienced so far.

api 2y ago

JavaScript really illustrates the ultimate path-dependence of evolution. It got widely deployed during a boom time and therefore we are stuck with it forever.

Der_Einzige 2y ago
But I feel like other languages that we were de-facto "stuck with" in certain domains boomed and then busted - i.e. Lua, Pearl, etc
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  Javascript is the only language which straddled the Client Server Gap. If it weren't for Node, Javascript would not have been as popular.
  - api 2y ago
    There was something long ago called GWT -- Google Web Toolkit -- that tried to make Java into that language by having it compile to JavaScript. It actually worked decently well, but was due to Java needlessly verbose. WASM lets us run other languages efficiently in the browser but that just opens the field to a lot of languages, not one language to rule them all.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      Also GWT apps were pretty slow to load and start, and were very "app"-like as opposed to web-page like at a time when that was not as familiar as it is today. That's how I remember it anyway. And pretty heavy, developer wise, at a time when "update a file on the FTP" was still normal.
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    It's still absolutely baffling to me that anyone is willing to run JS server side. There are so many options which are much better suited, why are people willing to jam that square peg into the round hole?