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People should understand that proper clean electronic waste recycling does exist. This story isn't so much about "we need to stop consuming new electronics" as

People should understand that proper clean electronic waste recycling does exist. This story isn't so much about "we need to stop consuming new electronics" as it is "we need to ensure that electronic waste doesn't end up being dumped on random impoverished towns in Africa". These guys are burning off the insulation from wires when there are simple cheap machines that automatically strip it all off. This is more a portrayal of extreme poverty than anything.

HermanMartinus 2y ago
I second this opinion. Here's an older article which is less dramatised and talks about attempted interventions such as trying to get the recyclers to use wire strippers instead of burning: https://www.worstpolluted.org/projects_reports/display/107 https://www.worstpolluted.org/projects_reports/display/107
- sweeter 2y ago
  the guy doesn't have any shoes, where are these tools going to come from?
  - HermanMartinus 2y ago
    They were supplied with wire strippers. That was the intervention, not just the suggestion of wire strippers.
    - moffkalast 2y ago
      I'm pretty sure at the rates they get paid they'd be better off selling the wire strippers and keep burning the insulation. Like this is Marie Antoinette tier behavior of someone so out of touch with reality from their own privilege they can't even see it. "Hello, I, a benevolent westerner have bestowed upon you a dirt cheap tool so you can keep digging through cancerous muck for pennies. Am I not a gracious god? Thanks bye"
      - boneitis 2y ago
        Not only that. It feels like we (commenting as a U.S. reader seeing that one of the two organizations in the link behind the campaign is based out of N.Y.) are telling them how they should be playing with our waste after it has been discarded to them. To be fair, the article cites "occupational" hazards in addition to the "ecological" ones, albeit with less (IMO) emphasis. I would hope that the actual campaign efforts in the field focused largely on those during outreach to recyclers.
      - bloppe 2y ago
        Unless you're doing anything at all to help, maybe try being a little less cynical about the people who are.
        motoxpro 2y ago
        Yeah i struggle with this as well. I don't know who GP is and maybe they are doing a ton, but every time I read a comment like this I think of a similar thing: "Hello, I, a benevolent westerner am tasked with explaining how poor you are to others but will never think of you after today or do anything to improve your condition. However, I am very serious about my role of explaining how anyone that trys to help or implement incremental solutions is a bad person."
        sweeter 2y ago
        I do agree with that, but at the exact same time, it is important to be critical of these actions and to understand our role and part in this. For me, thinking about this logically leads me to the conclusion that, while individual action can be good-willed, it is not enough to fix a systemic problem. Systemic problems need to be fixed with systemic actions, and that first step requires people to recognize and understand the problem.
        psd1 2y ago
        The point that I read in your GP comment - and that I agree with - is that solutions need to be local: attuned to the local environment, which tends to imply invented by local people. C.f. Mpesa; westerners generally wouldn't think of payment over SMS, because they don't have the right lenses.
Rinzler89 2y ago
>People should understand that proper clean electronic waste recycling does exist. [..] This is more a portrayal of extreme poverty than anything. That like saying "people should understand that eating cake is also an option, you don't have to eat dirt". Because then answer me why most e-waste dumping gets shipped off to those impoverished countries instead of being processed locally using the "cheap and clean" ways you mention, directly in the rich western nations who are buying all those electronics in the first place. Throwing the blame back on the poor countries getting exploited by corporate interest of rich western countries doing greenwashing, feels like gaslighting.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  I cannot find any source that shows e-waste being primarily sent to third world countries. It looks like it mostly goes to India and China, if not processed locally. And at least in India it doesn't look like a burning hell hole of toxic waste.[1] [1]https://namoewaste.com/what-we-do/ https://namoewaste.com/what-we-do/
  - devsda 2y ago
    > Having long invaded Asia (Russia, India, China, etc.), e-waste from Europe and the United States is arriving in extensive quantities in the ports of West African countries such as Ghana, in violation of international treaties. This is from the first link[1] in the npr article. It doesn't say that it is the primary destination but does say that it is high. 1. https://www.fondationcarmignac.com/en/ANAS-AREMEYAW-ANAS-MUNTAKA-CHASANT-and-BeNeDICTE-KURZEN/ https://www.fondationcarmignac.com/en/ANAS-AREMEYAW-ANAS-MUN...
    - Workaccount2 2y ago
      "extensive quantities" is a meaningless term. If we use the numbers from the article (250k tons) and from the site your provided (62 million tons), "extensive quantities" is 0.4% of e-waste.
- randerson 2y ago
lnsru 2y ago
As an electrical engineer I am with you. There are machines to cut the cables and shred printed circuit boards to smallest pieces and recycle all the valuable materials. Even sort out plastic enclosure parts or glass by corresponding densities. But the world is run by greedy bastards who don’t care about anything else than their own pockets. That’s how plastic gets ditched in the ocean. That’s how electronics get shipped to this e-waste dumping ground. Or old ships end up in Bangladesh. I red probably too many science fiction books about future utopias, that the present makes me sad. Heck they can’t get the damn local commuter train line to run according the schedule in apparently wealthy part of Germany. Just shaking my head.
- pbronez 2y ago
  > There are machines to cut the cables and shred printed circuit boards to smallest pieces and recycle all the valuable materials. Even sort out plastic enclosure parts or glass by corresponding densities. I'd love to learn more about this. What's the state of the art? How do the economics work out? For now, I take my end-of-life electronics to the local BestBuy. They have pretty good recycling standards, which include attempts to reuse & refurbish devices: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/recycling/recycle-guidelines/pcmcat174700050010.c?id=pcmcat174700050010 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/recycling/recycle-guidelines/pc...
  - lnsru 2y ago
    The thing is that the economics are poor. Why? Because additional processing step of these materials in recycling plant produces worse quality materials that need purifying again if used for production. Except copper of course. And there should be two viewpoints: one is the cheapest way of getting the raw materials for production of other things. And the second is the clean way of getting rid of tons of electronics waste. Think about shelves of 17” first generation LCDs. Still not broken, but just outdated. The second one imho justifies the higher costs of materials. But if someone will pay let’s say 5% more for a television that was produced from recycled material… I don’t know. I see everywhere around greenwashing and I would not trust this anymore.
    - 2y ago
blitzar 2y ago
These guys are cheaper than the simple cheap machines that automatically strip insulation from wires.
- metadat 2y ago
  From a short-term capitalistic perspective, this is correct. The cost of the toxic materials generated from burning is externalized to all of us who are stuck on this rock.
  - concordDance 2y ago
    Isn't the toxicity for these kinds of heavy metals very local?
throwaway48476 2y ago
When I was in school there was some discussion of the product lifecycle which included some engineering considerations for recycling. It seems to me the consumer electronics industry has become actively hostile not just to repair but also safe recycling.
concordDance 2y ago
> we need to ensure that electronic waste doesn't end up being dumped on random impoverished towns in Africa Wouldn't this further impoverish those who get work from said dumps? The real issue seems to be that they have no alternatives. If they could get a $5000/Yr job making textiles there'd be no appetite for diving into rubbish.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  Iunno, I think the only way to do that would be to ban all textile imports in those places, which would make every non-textile worker poorer. Lots of places try to ban 2nd hand imports, but I think that just leads to poor quality “new” imports from even cheaper countries that have industrialized textile manufacturing. Unsure what it would take for them to become competitive textile producers but that’s what would work the best in the end. Maybe I’ve taken too many (one) economics courses…
eleveriven 2y ago
This issue is less about halting electronics consumption entirely and more about creating responsible systems for recycling.

HermanMartinus 2y ago

I second this opinion. Here's an older article which is less dramatised and talks about attempted interventions such as trying to get the recyclers to use wire strippers instead of burning: https://www.worstpolluted.org/projects_reports/display/107 https://www.worstpolluted.org/projects_reports/display/107

sweeter 2y ago
the guy doesn't have any shoes, where are these tools going to come from?
- HermanMartinus 2y ago
  They were supplied with wire strippers. That was the intervention, not just the suggestion of wire strippers.
  - moffkalast 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure at the rates they get paid they'd be better off selling the wire strippers and keep burning the insulation. Like this is Marie Antoinette tier behavior of someone so out of touch with reality from their own privilege they can't even see it. "Hello, I, a benevolent westerner have bestowed upon you a dirt cheap tool so you can keep digging through cancerous muck for pennies. Am I not a gracious god? Thanks bye"
    - boneitis 2y ago
      Not only that. It feels like we (commenting as a U.S. reader seeing that one of the two organizations in the link behind the campaign is based out of N.Y.) are telling them how they should be playing with our waste after it has been discarded to them. To be fair, the article cites "occupational" hazards in addition to the "ecological" ones, albeit with less (IMO) emphasis. I would hope that the actual campaign efforts in the field focused largely on those during outreach to recyclers.
    - bloppe 2y ago
      Unless you're doing anything at all to help, maybe try being a little less cynical about the people who are.
      - motoxpro 2y ago
        Yeah i struggle with this as well. I don't know who GP is and maybe they are doing a ton, but every time I read a comment like this I think of a similar thing: "Hello, I, a benevolent westerner am tasked with explaining how poor you are to others but will never think of you after today or do anything to improve your condition. However, I am very serious about my role of explaining how anyone that trys to help or implement incremental solutions is a bad person."
      - sweeter 2y ago
        I do agree with that, but at the exact same time, it is important to be critical of these actions and to understand our role and part in this. For me, thinking about this logically leads me to the conclusion that, while individual action can be good-willed, it is not enough to fix a systemic problem. Systemic problems need to be fixed with systemic actions, and that first step requires people to recognize and understand the problem.
        psd1 2y ago
        The point that I read in your GP comment - and that I agree with - is that solutions need to be local: attuned to the local environment, which tends to imply invented by local people. C.f. Mpesa; westerners generally wouldn't think of payment over SMS, because they don't have the right lenses.

Rinzler89 2y ago

>People should understand that proper clean electronic waste recycling does exist. [..] This is more a portrayal of extreme poverty than anything. That like saying "people should understand that eating cake is also an option, you don't have to eat dirt". Because then answer me why most e-waste dumping gets shipped off to those impoverished countries instead of being processed locally using the "cheap and clean" ways you mention, directly in the rich western nations who are buying all those electronics in the first place. Throwing the blame back on the poor countries getting exploited by corporate interest of rich western countries doing greenwashing, feels like gaslighting.

Workaccount2 2y ago
I cannot find any source that shows e-waste being primarily sent to third world countries. It looks like it mostly goes to India and China, if not processed locally. And at least in India it doesn't look like a burning hell hole of toxic waste.[1] [1]https://namoewaste.com/what-we-do/ https://namoewaste.com/what-we-do/
- devsda 2y ago
  > Having long invaded Asia (Russia, India, China, etc.), e-waste from Europe and the United States is arriving in extensive quantities in the ports of West African countries such as Ghana, in violation of international treaties. This is from the first link[1] in the npr article. It doesn't say that it is the primary destination but does say that it is high. 1. https://www.fondationcarmignac.com/en/ANAS-AREMEYAW-ANAS-MUNTAKA-CHASANT-and-BeNeDICTE-KURZEN/ https://www.fondationcarmignac.com/en/ANAS-AREMEYAW-ANAS-MUN...
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    "extensive quantities" is a meaningless term. If we use the numbers from the article (250k tons) and from the site your provided (62 million tons), "extensive quantities" is 0.4% of e-waste.
randerson 2y ago

lnsru 2y ago

As an electrical engineer I am with you. There are machines to cut the cables and shred printed circuit boards to smallest pieces and recycle all the valuable materials. Even sort out plastic enclosure parts or glass by corresponding densities. But the world is run by greedy bastards who don’t care about anything else than their own pockets. That’s how plastic gets ditched in the ocean. That’s how electronics get shipped to this e-waste dumping ground. Or old ships end up in Bangladesh. I red probably too many science fiction books about future utopias, that the present makes me sad. Heck they can’t get the damn local commuter train line to run according the schedule in apparently wealthy part of Germany. Just shaking my head.

pbronez 2y ago
> There are machines to cut the cables and shred printed circuit boards to smallest pieces and recycle all the valuable materials. Even sort out plastic enclosure parts or glass by corresponding densities. I'd love to learn more about this. What's the state of the art? How do the economics work out? For now, I take my end-of-life electronics to the local BestBuy. They have pretty good recycling standards, which include attempts to reuse & refurbish devices: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/recycling/recycle-guidelines/pcmcat174700050010.c?id=pcmcat174700050010 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/recycling/recycle-guidelines/pc...
- lnsru 2y ago
  The thing is that the economics are poor. Why? Because additional processing step of these materials in recycling plant produces worse quality materials that need purifying again if used for production. Except copper of course. And there should be two viewpoints: one is the cheapest way of getting the raw materials for production of other things. And the second is the clean way of getting rid of tons of electronics waste. Think about shelves of 17” first generation LCDs. Still not broken, but just outdated. The second one imho justifies the higher costs of materials. But if someone will pay let’s say 5% more for a television that was produced from recycled material… I don’t know. I see everywhere around greenwashing and I would not trust this anymore.
  - 2y ago

blitzar 2y ago

These guys are cheaper than the simple cheap machines that automatically strip insulation from wires.

metadat 2y ago
From a short-term capitalistic perspective, this is correct. The cost of the toxic materials generated from burning is externalized to all of us who are stuck on this rock.
- concordDance 2y ago
  Isn't the toxicity for these kinds of heavy metals very local?

throwaway48476 2y ago

When I was in school there was some discussion of the product lifecycle which included some engineering considerations for recycling. It seems to me the consumer electronics industry has become actively hostile not just to repair but also safe recycling.

concordDance 2y ago

> we need to ensure that electronic waste doesn't end up being dumped on random impoverished towns in Africa Wouldn't this further impoverish those who get work from said dumps? The real issue seems to be that they have no alternatives. If they could get a $5000/Yr job making textiles there'd be no appetite for diving into rubbish.

Scoundreller 2y ago
Iunno, I think the only way to do that would be to ban all textile imports in those places, which would make every non-textile worker poorer. Lots of places try to ban 2nd hand imports, but I think that just leads to poor quality “new” imports from even cheaper countries that have industrialized textile manufacturing. Unsure what it would take for them to become competitive textile producers but that’s what would work the best in the end. Maybe I’ve taken too many (one) economics courses…

eleveriven 2y ago

This issue is less about halting electronics consumption entirely and more about creating responsible systems for recycling.