12 ms·

Hetzner Object Storage

248 points by polyrand 2y ago

OutOfHere 2y ago
Will they delete the entire account if I store the banned word "bitcoin" as an object? (They probably will.)
- andybak 2y ago
  If you're trying to sensibly engage people in discussion about this then you probably want to provide some context. I personally have no idea what you're referring to.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    The context is that Hetzner is well known to delete accounts of users that they suspect of running processes or storing files that have the word "bitcoin" or any other word that Hetzner does not approve of. Hetzner does this without warning too. It doesn't matter if there is no network service, as local processing is sufficient for this action.
    - andybak 2y ago
      > Hetzner is well known Well - not that well known. I can find references to less egregious incidents - i.e. they ban running actual crypto software. Do you have any links I could read to find out more about the more extreme end of your claim? i.e. " storing files that have the word "bitcoin" or any other word that Hetzner does not approve of"? If this is true then it's a reason for anyone to avoid Hetzner as accidentally triggering it would be possible on almost all websites. If you're exaggerating for dramatic effect then that's fine I guess - I'd just like to find out the real state of affairs.
      - OutOfHere 2y ago
        I am not exaggerating it. I stand by what I said. My comment has nothing to do with running actual crypto software, implying that you don't have to be running it to get your services wiped. You also don't have to be using the internet. The ultimate discretion is up to the mood of Hetzner staff and up to when they get around to seeing what you do. If the word "bitcoin" occurs more than randomly in your usage, expect it to be ended without warning. I don't believe it to be an automated process.
    - PaywallBuster 2y ago
      they also block external servers on their network that are somehow related to crypto so if you have some kind of service/api/trading bot/scraping/monitoring hitting a somewhat related to crypto node you may find that you will have no routing from hetzner core router to said server and support is as friendly as other comments describe :)
      - internetter 2y ago
        > and support is as friendly as other comments describe :) In my experience, the support is not friendly, but it is no nonsense. Every time I've reached out, they responded quickly, tersely, and took appropriate actions. While I don't personally mind formalities, there's something to be said for their efficacy.
n3storm 2y ago
Works good. Not so cumbersome options as other providers.
kondro 2y ago
The 1000 requests per second per bucket limit feels pretty small.
drpossum 2y ago
Is this new or just an advertisement?
- vladde 2y ago
  Looks like it's in beta https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/beta https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/beta
- olau 2y ago
  It must be new - the page says they're in beta since two weeks ago and expect it to take a month or two to hit production. It's nice to see more competition in this space.
- isoprophlex 2y ago
  Pretty new. I enrolled in the beta a few weeks back, they will go GA later. I'm a big Hetzner fanboy, quite sad that pricing is't that competetive...
fabian2k 2y ago
One thing I noticed is that some limits seem rather low, I'm not sure if this is for the beta only or by design. Particularly the 1 Gbit/s limit per bucket and the 10 buckets for all projects. Is it typical to have such per-bucket limits? This means that you might have to take them into account when deciding on how to organize the data to avoid bottlenecks.
- phil21 2y ago
  Having implemented object storage at a service provider - it's extremely rare for any customer to have 1gbit/sec sustained throughput on an account, much less a bucket. Those that do likely will already have an actual sales rep and the means to get these restrictions lifted, with a direct line to engineering. Hetzner certainly markets to a different crowd, which I suspect is why these limits are being put in place ahead of time. It's very difficult to design around noisy neighbor, and will take some battle tested time in production to get right for the "average Joe" style customer who won't engage engineering resources to work with a provider to avoid hot spots and impacting other customers.
  - fabian2k 2y ago
    I'm more concerned about bursts, not sustained throughput. When handling large files a single client can load at 1 Gbit/s if the other side supports that. My suspicion was also that they're intentionally targeting a different crowd than S3 and focusing on their niche here.
    - phil21 2y ago
      Definitely agreed. I would be pretty surprised if this was burst capacity though. I have no insight as to how Hetzner implemented their object storage, but in general terms it's pretty difficult to ratelimit burst without adverse effects. Sustained is a lot easier to implement since you are typically having to have multiple load balancers coordinate to achieve such results. Attempting to do this at sub-minute time intervals is pretty tricky at scale.
- diggan 2y ago
baggy_trough 2y ago
$5.29 per TB/mo for storage. Backblaze is at $6, so not revolutionary.
- Bloedcoins 2y ago
  It is for people using hetzner for stuff. I run minio on hetzner and wouldn't send stuff across some other network to backblaze.
- s_dev 2y ago
  I was thinking of switching to BlackBlaze as I'm currently using Digital Ocean Spaces -- however I might look at Hetzner again -- not revolutionary but quite competitive.
  - PaywallBuster 2y ago
    b2 is not that good We use it for multiple use cases and all of them require lots of retries and error handling essentially they're build for backups use case, with lots of spinning rust, any kind of "working data" easily underperforms backups work fine because not time sensitive and retries handle the problems
- beingflo 2y ago
  1€ / TB egress is extremely attractive, though. Most other "budget" providers charge at least 10 - 20$.
  - ptman 2y ago
    cloudflare r2 has free egress
    - beingflo 2y ago
      I know, but I prefer fair pricing over free in situations like this. There are plenty of stories going around of CF forcing users to upgrade to an enterprise plan due to their usage. When there is a price tag, at least I know that won't happen to me (not that my usage would be on CFs radar anyway, it's the principle of it).
bhouston 2y ago
I am always scared to put too much trust in new Object Storage services. I love Hetzner and similar but until this new service has been around for a while, I'd only use them for stuff I can afford to lose. From the outside as a consumer of these services you do not know how robust they actually are on the inside. I remember the data loss from OVH where they put backups in the same building as the primaries and people only found out about this once a fire took out the whole building: https://blocksandfiles.com/2023/03/23/ovh-cloud-must-pay-damages-for-lost-backup-data/ https://blocksandfiles.com/2023/03/23/ovh-cloud-must-pay-dam...
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  You know that if US East suffers a FULL data loss that the recovery would take weeks with the question if it would even be possible. That's what happened to ovh... it wasn't just one building.
  - clarkdave 2y ago
    > It's not like there is a mirror datacenter just two blocks away Isn't that exactly what Availability Zones are for? They're physically separate[0] datacenters and each one contains a copy of each S3 object (unless using the explicit single-zone options) It's also straightforward (although not necessarily that cheap) to replicate S3 objects to another region [0] https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/faqs/?nc1=h_ls#Platform https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/faqs/?nc1=h_ls#Platform
  - ahofmann 2y ago
    It literally was one building in france, that burned to the ground: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/analysis/ovhcloud-fire-france-data-center/ https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/analysis/ovhcloud-fire...
  - abadpoli 2y ago
    If us-east-1 ever suffered a “FULL” data loss, it would be a company-ending event for so many companies that it would practically end society as we know it. OVH’s failure was a single building. That’s the problem with a lot of server hosters - even Google has their availability zones all co-located in the same building, so a physical event like a fire could take down an entire region. AWS has AZs in physically separate locations, each with 1+ separate DCs.
ed_blackburn 2y ago
Terrific to see native object storage in Hetzner. I think object storage is become a staple for most providers now. I can see that Hetzner is starting with WORM capabilities [0]. I wonder if this nascent product is successful they'll consider some of the features that other providers offer such as mutating objects, storage policies, tiering, and conditional writes. I appreciate you've got to start somewhere and this looks terrific for an opening gambit. Kudos Hetzner. [0] > Object Storage is mainly used to store and share data as it is not possible to edit any data that you uploaded to a Bucket (objects are immutable). So the main purpose of Object Storage is "WORM", which is short for, "Write once, read many [times]".
- sam_lowry_ 2y ago
  > mutating objects, storage policies, tiering, and conditional writes My only hope is that they won't make it more complex than it should be in an effort to match AWS.
  - internetter 2y ago
    Every provider virtually has to mirror AWS. The S3 API is the standard at this point. Nobody will switch if they need to replace all their code.
    - gedw99 2y ago
      For mutating object storage aws followed minio . You can see it in the minio repo and issues .
T3RMINATED 2y ago
[dead]
topicseed 2y ago
1k rps per bucket though ...
todotask 2y ago
Wow, I just saw "Hetzner goes Singapore", have been waiting for a decade.
- jsheard 2y ago
  Unfortunately their signature dirt cheap bandwidth isn't so cheap in Singapore, you only get 1TB inclusive instead of 20TB and the overage rates are 7.4x higher than their EU and NA datacenters.
  - todotask 2y ago
    That's a problem but still cheaper than UpCloud. I do find Cloudflare pricing is more attractive for read heavy website and startup plan is useful for us.
  - andrewstuart 2y ago
    IONOS VPS is free egress.
    - jsheard 2y ago
      I trust cheap a lot more than free, "free unlimited" anything usually just means there is a limit but you're not allowed to know what it is.
Havoc 2y ago
Oh that’s fun. I can see heztners brand of cheap but decent doing well in this space. Keen to see what is available to protect public buckets though to prevent huge bills from malicious actors
- mirekrusin 2y ago
  Cheap is a bit pejorative, I’d call it reasonable or competitive, ie. not exorbitant prices. They know what they’re doing and they’re doing it well, cheap is more side effect than primary goal.
  - Havoc 2y ago
    Cheap is a perfectly fine way to say low in price and you knew exactly what I meant...
    - mirekrusin 2y ago
      I know what you meant, just saying that somebody reading "brand of cheap but decent" may read as "brand of cheap stuff" and for clarification that's not what they represent.
      - Havoc 2y ago
        Perhaps I was being a little too subtle/polite. I get your point...its just an incredibly anal point to make
        mirekrusin 2y ago
        :D
Neil44 2y ago
Linode also has S3 compatible storage now, Backblaze B2 buckets have S3 access too
ChocolateGod 2y ago
Did some benchmarks, not too bad. Benchmark finished! block-size: 4.0 MiB, big-object-size: 1.0 GiB, small-object-size: 128 KiB, small-objects: 100, NumThreads: 6 +--------------------+--------------------+------------------+ | ITEM | VALUE | COST | +--------------------+--------------------+------------------+ | upload objects | 207.02 MiB/s | 115.93 ms/object | | download objects | 405.78 MiB/s | 59.14 ms/object | | put small objects | 278.4 objects/s | 21.55 ms/object | | get small objects | 498.5 objects/s | 12.04 ms/object | | list objects | 40977.06 objects/s | 14.64 ms/op | | head objects | 1995.4 objects/s | 3.01 ms/object | | delete objects | 312.1 objects/s | 19.22 ms/object | | change permissions | not support | not support | | change owner/group | not support | not support | | update mtime | not support | not support | +--------------------+--------------------+------------------+ Currently have a project using OVH, which is slower, but than I guess there's currently less load on Hetzner. Benchmark finished! block-size: 4.0 MiB, big-object-size: 1.0 GiB, small-object-size: 128 KiB, small-objects: 100, NumThreads: 6 +--------------------+-------------------+------------------+ | ITEM | VALUE | COST | +--------------------+-------------------+------------------+ | upload objects | 80.82 MiB/s | 296.94 ms/object | | download objects | 274.61 MiB/s | 87.40 ms/object | | put small objects | 31.6 objects/s | 189.98 ms/object | | get small objects | 145.1 objects/s | 41.36 ms/object | | list objects | 6293.39 objects/s | 95.34 ms/op | | head objects | 177.7 objects/s | 33.76 ms/object | | delete objects | 136.6 objects/s | 43.93 ms/object | | change permissions | not support | not support | | change owner/group | not support | not support | | update mtime | not support | not support | +--------------------+-------------------+------------------+
- teknopurge 2y ago
  what tool are you using for this wonderful data?
  - aqfamnzc 2y ago
    Looks like juicefs objbench. https://juicefs.com/docs/community/performance_evaluation_guide#juicefs-objbench https://juicefs.com/docs/community/performance_evaluation_gu...
indulona 2y ago
i was interested in hetzner and their services, until i tried to sign up and, after they verified my payment card and all went well, i instantly got account suspended email and that was it. and i am glad it happened. i cannot imagine having a tiny problem later on, costing me money, with a company like that. btw backblaze is the best object storage offer on the planet at this time(i have research all options). second would be wasabi.
- akdev1l 2y ago
  I’m a wasabi customer, why is backblaze better as per your research?
  - indulona 2y ago
    Backblaze gives you 3x free egress of your stored data per month. Wasabi gives you only up to 1x. So it's like you have 1 TB of data and you can download 1 TB each month via Wasabi for free, but 3TB with backblaze. Since traffic is the most costly expense when it comes to object storage, this is priceless.
    - ph4te 2y ago
      This is highly dependent on the use case. Backblaze gives you 3x free egress, but after you hit that you pay for any additional egress. Wasabi has terms of use not to exceed 1x your storage, but is not in their model to pay egress. As a long-term storage user, you can restore a full system-wide backup without any concern of charges at Wasabi(typically, you're not restoring everything, just recent backups), as long as you are not consistently doing it. Backblaze will get you more egress for sharing data over the public internet, but if you need more, you will get charged.
      - lsaferite 2y ago
        > typically, you're not restoring everything, just recent backups Not knowing the pricing difference between the two and assuming they are similar, I would favor Backblaze as it would allow me to exceed the limit if I needed. Based on how you framed it, I would expect that with Wasabi you might hit a hard limit.
Hamuko 2y ago
I don't understand the pricing. There's a base fee of 0.0081 €/h, which I guess then is translated into 5.00 €/month? Or is that 0.0081 €/h + 5.00 €/month? And that gives me a 1 TB-hour of free usage, and if I use the object storage for the whole month, it's 720 TB-hours of free usage, except if the month has more or less than 30 days (so it's actually between 672 TB-hour and 744 TB-hour of free quota of storage)? And those TB-hours expire at the end of the month, so you might as well store files if you're under a 1 TB? Amazon S3 pricing looking more and more sane.
- exceptione 2y ago
  Agree that the pricing model is highly unclear (which is usual for cloud services). It does not tell me if I should count hours in hour-of-the-day, or lapsed time. Also the example tries to demonstrate a case of "you don´t have to pay extra", but then falls silent. Nice, not the info I am looking for. What about envisioning a customer who asks «what am I going to pay? Specify it right now, right here».
- qeternity 2y ago
  Yeah we are big fans of Hetzner and this pricing model makes no sense. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it and the strange limits associated with it.
- jorams 2y ago
  It's not explained very clearly and made more complicated by being charged hourly instead of monthly, but essentially there's a minimum charge of €5 per month, which includes 1TB of storage and about 1TB of bandwidth.
  - donatzsky 2y ago
    That's not how I read it or what their example says. As I understand it, if you create a bucket and then delete it again within the hour, you only pay for one hour. I think the 5€/month is if you have active buckets the whole month, since it's less than if you actually had to pay for all the hours. 30 * 24 * 0.0081 = 5.83 28 * 24 * 0.0081 = 5.44
andrewstuart 2y ago
Compare S3 storage here: https://getdeploying.com/reference/object-storage https://getdeploying.com/reference/object-storage
skartik 2y ago
I am trying to register on Hetzner and not able to. I get the account verification email but after verification I am not able to login to the account and also do not receive any Hetzner email with login or account information. Strange. Yeah, I am from from India, so maybe that's why. Anyone else? Who is not able to register?
- Hetzner_OL 2y ago
  Please see: https://www.reddit.com/r/hetzner/comments/1cmhvzs/new_account_problems_read_this_standalone_posts/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hetzner/comments/1cmhvzs/new_accoun... --Katie (Hetzner Online)
dangoodmanUT 2y ago
Seems you can only move like 1TB/mo of data though? And a limit of 24TB of storage per account is also quite low.
- stavros 2y ago
  Where are you seeing these limits? I'm seeing: Up to 10 TB per object Up to 1 GBit/s bandwidth per Bucket Up to 1024 operations/s per Bucket Up to 100 TB per Bucket Up to 100,000,000 objects per Bucket Up to 100 S3 credentials across all projects Up to 10 Buckets across all projects
GavinAnderegg 2y ago
Might be a stupid question, but why did Hetzner take off? I feel like I’d barely heard of them before last year, but now they’re the go-to hosting suggestion from many. Are they just a solid host, or do they offer something extra? Their website makes them looks almost generic, so I assume it’s not marketing.
- CGamesPlay 2y ago
  It's very cheap. They've been around for years. I've been using them for my personal server for the past 2-3 years without problems. The only problems I have seen from them are the control plane API going down (so, like, creating new servers isn't available).
- Hamuko 2y ago
  I got a pretty nice dedicated server with 2x3 TB HDD + 20 TB/month of traffic for just 25€/month. Was great for hosting >1 TB of video content publically.
- internetter 2y ago
  The pricing is much better than other providers, while being a reputable company. Pretty much the best value for non-enterprise workloads.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- earnesti 2y ago
  They have been around for a long time. I heard people praising them already in startup events 10+ year ago (I'm not that active in the scene myself any more). They are known for great price/quality ratio for the dedicated servers. There are some gotchas, as you might get random crappy hardware or whatever. The firms I have been working for and which decided to go build their infra mostly with hetzner, I would estimate that they have saved millions in comparison to common cloud services. The staff often complains because managing your own dedicated servers is a bit more work than going with something like AWS, but if you put in the numbers, the amount of money saved in the end can be insane.
amanda99 2y ago
It's interesting that they implement AWS bucket policies, including all AWS-specific syntax/keys/etc, even "arn": https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/s3-credentials https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/s3-crede...
- hedvig23 2y ago
  They probably used chatgpt to build the product and copied-pasted
- lazyarcher 2y ago
  > It's interesting that they implement AWS bucket policies, including all AWS-specific syntax/keys/etc, even "arn": https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/s3-credentials https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/s3-crede... It seems the Hetzner's docs say they use MinIO to expose their S3 managed service. I guess everything will be the same as MinIO upstream features and contigurations
  - mrngm 2y ago
    I can only find mentions of the minio client as a way of accessing their S3 service. Their introductory page[0] says "Any data you save in your Bucket is saved in a Ceph cluster.", which suggests they use Ceph's radosgw that offers the S3-compatible API[1]. [0] https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/overview#object-storage https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/overview#obj... [1] https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/radosgw/s3/ https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/radosgw/s3/
bluedino 2y ago
What does this kind of stuff run on the back end? Is it Ceph? Is it something custom like BackBlaze B2?
- marvinblum 2y ago
  I think it's Minio.
  - pandemicsyn 2y ago
    Its Ceph. > Our S3-compatible Object Storage provides you with storage capacity for saving data in "Buckets". Any data you save in your Bucket is saved in a Ceph cluster. from https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/overview#object-storage https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/overview#obj...
CyberDildonics 2y ago
What is the difference between an "object store" and a file system if it runs at speeds that a basic filesystem can easily match?
- moduspwnens14 2y ago
  Locking semantics? Consistent listing of large numbers of files? I'm speculating but those are at least the two I can think of that aren't explicitly linked to speed equivalency of a basic filesystem.
  - CyberDildonics 2y ago
    If it's on a server on the internet how would anyone know the difference?
KronisLV 2y ago
A while ago I needed something managed, very cheap and S3 compatible and I went with Contabo Object Storage: https://contabo.com/en/object-storage/ https://contabo.com/en/object-storage/ Admittedly I got my money's worth, for about 3 EUR for the very basic plan of 250 GB storage, I get upload speeds of about 6-9 MB/s and download speeds of about 25 MB/s, which is okay for what I'm trying to do. That said, it doesn't seem like there's a way to create additional users with access to only specific buckets not all of them for the same service and the overall offering does feel a bit jank (e.g. when you don't have an active service, you can't log into Contabo at all and while their Object Storage site is nice, the regular VPS one feels functional but dated). What I'm saying is that when it comes to budget options, Hetzner will probably do great, since they have a good track record and it's not like there are that many other alternatives out there! Of course, I could have also gone with just self-hosting with MinIO, Garage or SeaweedFS, as long as the VPS that I'd get would also have enough storage. It's nice that there are self-hosted options, too, I almost dread when I see bespoke object storage solutions at work, either developed before S3 was a thing or because the devs just didn't know or had a case of NIH, so I have to look at how a bunch of blobs are passed through servlets and serialized/deserialized, as well as deal with custom metadata and permission mechanisms.
- simlevesque 2y ago
  Your link returns a 500 right now
- rmbyrro 2y ago
  Backblaze seems to be 2x less expensive than Contabo.
- XCSme 2y ago
  I can't recommend Contabo, they have terrible support and constant hidden downtime.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Fornax96 2y ago
So, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but this announcement has extremely suspicious timing. You see, I host a cloud storage service on Hetzner. I have 12 PETABYTES of user data stored there. The data is spread over 120 of their SX type storage servers. Last week Hetzner sent me an email saying they were closing my account for an unknown reason. I have repeatedly been asking about the reason of this sudden closure, but they won't tell me. Meanwhile I have a huge problem, because I need to move 12 PB to a different hosting provider, and they only gave me until the end of November. That's an almost impossible deadline for setting up such a large storage cluster. Especially considering that Hetzner's 1 Gbps port speed makes it impossible to transfer the data in less than three weeks. Don't trust Hetzner, guys. They screwed me over real bad here, and it seems like they will be taking the hardware that I have been renting there for 10 years for themselves now. This is incredibly scummy behaviour.
- Jamie9912 2y ago
  >Hetzner's 1 Gbps port speed makes it impossible to transfer the data in less than three weeks But don't you have that spread over 120 servers?
  - Fornax96 2y ago
    Each server has a 1 Gbps connection. Some servers are storing more than average, some have 160 TB. That's already 2 weeks at full line rate. But I also need to keep serving user traffic. I can't take the site offline for a month for a data migration, that would completely kill my business.
    - PaywallBuster 2y ago
      I'm guessing you're banned because you have such amounts of data/servers and push a substantial amount of bandwidth under the free "1gbps" card for each (even if the cache layer handles most requests directly) perharps if you moved all servers to 10G and payed for the egress over 20Tb they would reconsider your account? They still unreliable pulling stuff like this but difficult to find these hardware options off the shelf, ready for order, at this rpice
marvinblum 2y ago
We've been using Hetzner for years for Pirsch [0] now, and so far we had a great experience. I migrated all of our data from AWS S3 to their new object storage without issues. We only use it for user pictures and small files (white-labeling logos and such). This is one of the rare cases where AWS is actually cheaper for us. It's probably more worth it if you have a lot of data. The only thing we're missing now is SES, and then we've fully migrated away from AWS :) [0] https://pirsch.io https://pirsch.io
twic 2y ago
Since we're talking object storage, a question for the collective brain: are there any object storage solutions, cloud or on-prem, which support any sort of "operator pushdown"? By "operator pushdown", i mean any ability to filter or map over the contents of the object on the server side in some way, sending only the results over the network to the client. For example, say you have a huge CSV file of customer orders in a bucket. You might want to find the timestamp of all the orders which included a particular product. If all you can do is stream the whole file, then you need to do that, just to pick out a few timestamps. But you could imagine a kind of request where you say "only give me lines where the product ID is P01234, and only send the timestamp column". Perhaps you would express that as a pair of regular expressions, or a sed program, or a Lua script, or maybe the server would understand CSV and let you write something a bit like SQL. There are all sorts of ways it could be done. Providing a fully general way might be tricky, but it wouldn't need to be fully general to be useful. I appreciate that if you want to do this sort of access frequently, you should probably be using a database, not object storage. But it seems like a very useful feature to layer on top of object storage, and one that feels like it should be fairly cheap to execute - the server has to do a small extra amount of computation, but then needs a lto less network bandwidth.
- rapatel0 2y ago
  Look into duckdb. It's not server side, but It's pretty phenomenal for this use case.
- patrickthebold 2y ago
  In the AWS world, Athena does more or less what you are describing: but is is targeted (AFAIU) for large datasets. I'm not sure how it would perform on a single (small) CSV to shave off a few bytes in transit.
- weberer 2y ago
  Yeah, on AWS you can set up a Glue Data Catalog and query it with Athena.
- dmw_ng 2y ago
  That's been a feature of S3 for quite a long time now, called S3 Select https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/selecting-content-from-objects.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/select... Despite it being an awesome feature I've been itching to use, I've never actually found a use for it beyond messing around. Most places where S3 Select might make sense seems to be subsumed (for my uses) by Athena. Athena has a rather large amount of conceptual and actual boilerplate to get up and running with, though, S3 Select requires no upfront planning beyond building a fancy query string (or using their SDK wrappers) Where S3 Select is likely to become fiddly is anywhere multiple files are involved. Athena makes querying large collections of CSVs (etc) straightforward, and handles all the scheduling and results merging for you.
systemdave 2y ago
As someone who has managed many public Ceph clusters at Linode (now Akamai) since 2016 for both block and object storage, I wish the Hetzner engineers good luck! There are a _lot_ of challenges in keeping the clusters secure, reliable, and performant. Make sure you have systems or tools in place to prevent abuse. Be aware of the little nuances of Ceph, like what time lifecycle policies kick off, or when dynamic bucket resharding will kick in (and block client writes!). If possible, conduct extensive failure testing in a lab environment under simulated load to see how your clusters will really behave when it eventually happens. Triple check all of your tunables and your pool configuration. Some things like erasure coding profiles are set in stone, and once you have customer data on your clusters, there is no turning back.
espadrine 2y ago
AWS: $0.024/GB/month (S3 standard, first 50 TB/month) GCP: $0.023/GB/month (standard storage, beyond 5 GB free limit) Azure: $0.019/GB/month (hot, first 50 TB/month) Cloudflare: $0.015/GB/month (beyond 10 GB free limit) Scaleway: ~$0.013/GB/month (single-zone) Backblaze: $0.006/GB/month Hetzner: ~$5.49/month + $0.0054/GB/month (beyond 1TB free limit) Egress costs vary though.
- layer8 2y ago
  In slightly different terms, Hetzner is roughly 5 €/TB/month of storage plus 1 €/TB of egress (ex. VAT).
  - coolspot 2y ago
    In slightly different terms, Hetzner is roughly $0.006/Gb/month , similar to Backblaze
- chasely 2y ago
  Working at a startup that deals in large data (our storage is measured in PB), egress is the only thing thing that matters if we're going to choose a new storage provider. And an automated class management system a la S3 or GCS.
  - huntaub 2y ago
    I'm always surprised to hear that folks really think about egress costs. I think that's true if you're egressing across the internet for things like photos (i.e. if I'm embedding an image stored on S3 in my website), but for most use cases -- you should store your data in the object storage system that's in the same cloud as your compute to avoid those charges and performance penalties.
    - chasely 2y ago
      We're saying the same thing, really. Basically until AWS/GCP/Azure have minimal egress fees there is no way we can switch over to a different storage provider. They obviously know this so it will probably never happen.
impulser_ 2y ago
How does Hetzner compare to DigitalOcean? Lately I have seen a lot of people pushing Hetzner.

248 points by polyrand 2y ago

OutOfHere 2y ago

Will they delete the entire account if I store the banned word "bitcoin" as an object? (They probably will.)

andybak 2y ago
If you're trying to sensibly engage people in discussion about this then you probably want to provide some context. I personally have no idea what you're referring to.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  The context is that Hetzner is well known to delete accounts of users that they suspect of running processes or storing files that have the word "bitcoin" or any other word that Hetzner does not approve of. Hetzner does this without warning too. It doesn't matter if there is no network service, as local processing is sufficient for this action.
  - andybak 2y ago
    > Hetzner is well known Well - not that well known. I can find references to less egregious incidents - i.e. they ban running actual crypto software. Do you have any links I could read to find out more about the more extreme end of your claim? i.e. " storing files that have the word "bitcoin" or any other word that Hetzner does not approve of"? If this is true then it's a reason for anyone to avoid Hetzner as accidentally triggering it would be possible on almost all websites. If you're exaggerating for dramatic effect then that's fine I guess - I'd just like to find out the real state of affairs.
    - OutOfHere 2y ago
      I am not exaggerating it. I stand by what I said. My comment has nothing to do with running actual crypto software, implying that you don't have to be running it to get your services wiped. You also don't have to be using the internet. The ultimate discretion is up to the mood of Hetzner staff and up to when they get around to seeing what you do. If the word "bitcoin" occurs more than randomly in your usage, expect it to be ended without warning. I don't believe it to be an automated process.
  - PaywallBuster 2y ago
    they also block external servers on their network that are somehow related to crypto so if you have some kind of service/api/trading bot/scraping/monitoring hitting a somewhat related to crypto node you may find that you will have no routing from hetzner core router to said server and support is as friendly as other comments describe :)
    - internetter 2y ago
      > and support is as friendly as other comments describe :) In my experience, the support is not friendly, but it is no nonsense. Every time I've reached out, they responded quickly, tersely, and took appropriate actions. While I don't personally mind formalities, there's something to be said for their efficacy.

n3storm 2y ago

Works good. Not so cumbersome options as other providers.

kondro 2y ago

The 1000 requests per second per bucket limit feels pretty small.

drpossum 2y ago

Is this new or just an advertisement?

vladde 2y ago
Looks like it's in beta https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/beta https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/beta
olau 2y ago
It must be new - the page says they're in beta since two weeks ago and expect it to take a month or two to hit production. It's nice to see more competition in this space.
isoprophlex 2y ago
Pretty new. I enrolled in the beta a few weeks back, they will go GA later. I'm a big Hetzner fanboy, quite sad that pricing is't that competetive...

fabian2k 2y ago

One thing I noticed is that some limits seem rather low, I'm not sure if this is for the beta only or by design. Particularly the 1 Gbit/s limit per bucket and the 10 buckets for all projects. Is it typical to have such per-bucket limits? This means that you might have to take them into account when deciding on how to organize the data to avoid bottlenecks.

phil21 2y ago
Having implemented object storage at a service provider - it's extremely rare for any customer to have 1gbit/sec sustained throughput on an account, much less a bucket. Those that do likely will already have an actual sales rep and the means to get these restrictions lifted, with a direct line to engineering. Hetzner certainly markets to a different crowd, which I suspect is why these limits are being put in place ahead of time. It's very difficult to design around noisy neighbor, and will take some battle tested time in production to get right for the "average Joe" style customer who won't engage engineering resources to work with a provider to avoid hot spots and impacting other customers.
- fabian2k 2y ago
  I'm more concerned about bursts, not sustained throughput. When handling large files a single client can load at 1 Gbit/s if the other side supports that. My suspicion was also that they're intentionally targeting a different crowd than S3 and focusing on their niche here.
  - phil21 2y ago
    Definitely agreed. I would be pretty surprised if this was burst capacity though. I have no insight as to how Hetzner implemented their object storage, but in general terms it's pretty difficult to ratelimit burst without adverse effects. Sustained is a lot easier to implement since you are typically having to have multiple load balancers coordinate to achieve such results. Attempting to do this at sub-minute time intervals is pretty tricky at scale.
diggan 2y ago

baggy_trough 2y ago

$5.29 per TB/mo for storage. Backblaze is at $6, so not revolutionary.

Bloedcoins 2y ago
It is for people using hetzner for stuff. I run minio on hetzner and wouldn't send stuff across some other network to backblaze.
s_dev 2y ago
I was thinking of switching to BlackBlaze as I'm currently using Digital Ocean Spaces -- however I might look at Hetzner again -- not revolutionary but quite competitive.
- PaywallBuster 2y ago
  b2 is not that good We use it for multiple use cases and all of them require lots of retries and error handling essentially they're build for backups use case, with lots of spinning rust, any kind of "working data" easily underperforms backups work fine because not time sensitive and retries handle the problems
beingflo 2y ago
1€ / TB egress is extremely attractive, though. Most other "budget" providers charge at least 10 - 20$.
- ptman 2y ago
  cloudflare r2 has free egress
  - beingflo 2y ago
    I know, but I prefer fair pricing over free in situations like this. There are plenty of stories going around of CF forcing users to upgrade to an enterprise plan due to their usage. When there is a price tag, at least I know that won't happen to me (not that my usage would be on CFs radar anyway, it's the principle of it).

bhouston 2y ago

I am always scared to put too much trust in new Object Storage services. I love Hetzner and similar but until this new service has been around for a while, I'd only use them for stuff I can afford to lose. From the outside as a consumer of these services you do not know how robust they actually are on the inside. I remember the data loss from OVH where they put backups in the same building as the primaries and people only found out about this once a fire took out the whole building: https://blocksandfiles.com/2023/03/23/ovh-cloud-must-pay-damages-for-lost-backup-data/ https://blocksandfiles.com/2023/03/23/ovh-cloud-must-pay-dam...

BoredPositron 2y ago
You know that if US East suffers a FULL data loss that the recovery would take weeks with the question if it would even be possible. That's what happened to ovh... it wasn't just one building.
- clarkdave 2y ago
  > It's not like there is a mirror datacenter just two blocks away Isn't that exactly what Availability Zones are for? They're physically separate[0] datacenters and each one contains a copy of each S3 object (unless using the explicit single-zone options) It's also straightforward (although not necessarily that cheap) to replicate S3 objects to another region [0] https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/faqs/?nc1=h_ls#Platform https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/faqs/?nc1=h_ls#Platform
- ahofmann 2y ago
  It literally was one building in france, that burned to the ground: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/analysis/ovhcloud-fire-france-data-center/ https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/analysis/ovhcloud-fire...
- abadpoli 2y ago
  If us-east-1 ever suffered a “FULL” data loss, it would be a company-ending event for so many companies that it would practically end society as we know it. OVH’s failure was a single building. That’s the problem with a lot of server hosters - even Google has their availability zones all co-located in the same building, so a physical event like a fire could take down an entire region. AWS has AZs in physically separate locations, each with 1+ separate DCs.

ed_blackburn 2y ago

Terrific to see native object storage in Hetzner. I think object storage is become a staple for most providers now. I can see that Hetzner is starting with WORM capabilities [0]. I wonder if this nascent product is successful they'll consider some of the features that other providers offer such as mutating objects, storage policies, tiering, and conditional writes. I appreciate you've got to start somewhere and this looks terrific for an opening gambit. Kudos Hetzner. [0] > Object Storage is mainly used to store and share data as it is not possible to edit any data that you uploaded to a Bucket (objects are immutable). So the main purpose of Object Storage is "WORM", which is short for, "Write once, read many [times]".

sam_lowry_ 2y ago
> mutating objects, storage policies, tiering, and conditional writes My only hope is that they won't make it more complex than it should be in an effort to match AWS.
- internetter 2y ago
  Every provider virtually has to mirror AWS. The S3 API is the standard at this point. Nobody will switch if they need to replace all their code.
  - gedw99 2y ago
    For mutating object storage aws followed minio . You can see it in the minio repo and issues .

T3RMINATED 2y ago

[dead]

topicseed 2y ago

1k rps per bucket though ...

todotask 2y ago

Wow, I just saw "Hetzner goes Singapore", have been waiting for a decade.

jsheard 2y ago
Unfortunately their signature dirt cheap bandwidth isn't so cheap in Singapore, you only get 1TB inclusive instead of 20TB and the overage rates are 7.4x higher than their EU and NA datacenters.
- todotask 2y ago
  That's a problem but still cheaper than UpCloud. I do find Cloudflare pricing is more attractive for read heavy website and startup plan is useful for us.
- andrewstuart 2y ago
  IONOS VPS is free egress.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    I trust cheap a lot more than free, "free unlimited" anything usually just means there is a limit but you're not allowed to know what it is.

Havoc 2y ago

Oh that’s fun. I can see heztners brand of cheap but decent doing well in this space. Keen to see what is available to protect public buckets though to prevent huge bills from malicious actors

mirekrusin 2y ago
Cheap is a bit pejorative, I’d call it reasonable or competitive, ie. not exorbitant prices. They know what they’re doing and they’re doing it well, cheap is more side effect than primary goal.
- Havoc 2y ago
  Cheap is a perfectly fine way to say low in price and you knew exactly what I meant...
  - mirekrusin 2y ago
    I know what you meant, just saying that somebody reading "brand of cheap but decent" may read as "brand of cheap stuff" and for clarification that's not what they represent.
    - Havoc 2y ago
      Perhaps I was being a little too subtle/polite. I get your point...its just an incredibly anal point to make
      - mirekrusin 2y ago
        :D

Neil44 2y ago

Linode also has S3 compatible storage now, Backblaze B2 buckets have S3 access too

ChocolateGod 2y ago

teknopurge 2y ago
what tool are you using for this wonderful data?
- aqfamnzc 2y ago
  Looks like juicefs objbench. https://juicefs.com/docs/community/performance_evaluation_guide#juicefs-objbench https://juicefs.com/docs/community/performance_evaluation_gu...

indulona 2y ago

i was interested in hetzner and their services, until i tried to sign up and, after they verified my payment card and all went well, i instantly got account suspended email and that was it. and i am glad it happened. i cannot imagine having a tiny problem later on, costing me money, with a company like that. btw backblaze is the best object storage offer on the planet at this time(i have research all options). second would be wasabi.

akdev1l 2y ago
I’m a wasabi customer, why is backblaze better as per your research?
- indulona 2y ago
  Backblaze gives you 3x free egress of your stored data per month. Wasabi gives you only up to 1x. So it's like you have 1 TB of data and you can download 1 TB each month via Wasabi for free, but 3TB with backblaze. Since traffic is the most costly expense when it comes to object storage, this is priceless.
  - ph4te 2y ago
    This is highly dependent on the use case. Backblaze gives you 3x free egress, but after you hit that you pay for any additional egress. Wasabi has terms of use not to exceed 1x your storage, but is not in their model to pay egress. As a long-term storage user, you can restore a full system-wide backup without any concern of charges at Wasabi(typically, you're not restoring everything, just recent backups), as long as you are not consistently doing it. Backblaze will get you more egress for sharing data over the public internet, but if you need more, you will get charged.
    - lsaferite 2y ago
      > typically, you're not restoring everything, just recent backups Not knowing the pricing difference between the two and assuming they are similar, I would favor Backblaze as it would allow me to exceed the limit if I needed. Based on how you framed it, I would expect that with Wasabi you might hit a hard limit.

Hamuko 2y ago

I don't understand the pricing. There's a base fee of 0.0081 €/h, which I guess then is translated into 5.00 €/month? Or is that 0.0081 €/h + 5.00 €/month? And that gives me a 1 TB-hour of free usage, and if I use the object storage for the whole month, it's 720 TB-hours of free usage, except if the month has more or less than 30 days (so it's actually between 672 TB-hour and 744 TB-hour of free quota of storage)? And those TB-hours expire at the end of the month, so you might as well store files if you're under a 1 TB? Amazon S3 pricing looking more and more sane.

exceptione 2y ago
Agree that the pricing model is highly unclear (which is usual for cloud services). It does not tell me if I should count hours in hour-of-the-day, or lapsed time. Also the example tries to demonstrate a case of "you don´t have to pay extra", but then falls silent. Nice, not the info I am looking for. What about envisioning a customer who asks «what am I going to pay? Specify it right now, right here».
qeternity 2y ago
Yeah we are big fans of Hetzner and this pricing model makes no sense. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it and the strange limits associated with it.
jorams 2y ago
It's not explained very clearly and made more complicated by being charged hourly instead of monthly, but essentially there's a minimum charge of €5 per month, which includes 1TB of storage and about 1TB of bandwidth.
- donatzsky 2y ago
  That's not how I read it or what their example says. As I understand it, if you create a bucket and then delete it again within the hour, you only pay for one hour. I think the 5€/month is if you have active buckets the whole month, since it's less than if you actually had to pay for all the hours. 30 * 24 * 0.0081 = 5.83 28 * 24 * 0.0081 = 5.44

andrewstuart 2y ago

Compare S3 storage here: https://getdeploying.com/reference/object-storage https://getdeploying.com/reference/object-storage

skartik 2y ago

I am trying to register on Hetzner and not able to. I get the account verification email but after verification I am not able to login to the account and also do not receive any Hetzner email with login or account information. Strange. Yeah, I am from from India, so maybe that's why. Anyone else? Who is not able to register?

Hetzner_OL 2y ago
Please see: https://www.reddit.com/r/hetzner/comments/1cmhvzs/new_account_problems_read_this_standalone_posts/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hetzner/comments/1cmhvzs/new_accoun... --Katie (Hetzner Online)

dangoodmanUT 2y ago

Seems you can only move like 1TB/mo of data though? And a limit of 24TB of storage per account is also quite low.

stavros 2y ago
Where are you seeing these limits? I'm seeing: Up to 10 TB per object Up to 1 GBit/s bandwidth per Bucket Up to 1024 operations/s per Bucket Up to 100 TB per Bucket Up to 100,000,000 objects per Bucket Up to 100 S3 credentials across all projects Up to 10 Buckets across all projects

GavinAnderegg 2y ago

Might be a stupid question, but why did Hetzner take off? I feel like I’d barely heard of them before last year, but now they’re the go-to hosting suggestion from many. Are they just a solid host, or do they offer something extra? Their website makes them looks almost generic, so I assume it’s not marketing.

CGamesPlay 2y ago
It's very cheap. They've been around for years. I've been using them for my personal server for the past 2-3 years without problems. The only problems I have seen from them are the control plane API going down (so, like, creating new servers isn't available).
Hamuko 2y ago
I got a pretty nice dedicated server with 2x3 TB HDD + 20 TB/month of traffic for just 25€/month. Was great for hosting >1 TB of video content publically.
internetter 2y ago
The pricing is much better than other providers, while being a reputable company. Pretty much the best value for non-enterprise workloads.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
earnesti 2y ago
They have been around for a long time. I heard people praising them already in startup events 10+ year ago (I'm not that active in the scene myself any more). They are known for great price/quality ratio for the dedicated servers. There are some gotchas, as you might get random crappy hardware or whatever. The firms I have been working for and which decided to go build their infra mostly with hetzner, I would estimate that they have saved millions in comparison to common cloud services. The staff often complains because managing your own dedicated servers is a bit more work than going with something like AWS, but if you put in the numbers, the amount of money saved in the end can be insane.

amanda99 2y ago

It's interesting that they implement AWS bucket policies, including all AWS-specific syntax/keys/etc, even "arn": https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/s3-credentials https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/s3-crede...

hedvig23 2y ago
They probably used chatgpt to build the product and copied-pasted
lazyarcher 2y ago
> It's interesting that they implement AWS bucket policies, including all AWS-specific syntax/keys/etc, even "arn": https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/s3-credentials https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/faq/s3-crede... It seems the Hetzner's docs say they use MinIO to expose their S3 managed service. I guess everything will be the same as MinIO upstream features and contigurations
- mrngm 2y ago
  I can only find mentions of the minio client as a way of accessing their S3 service. Their introductory page[0] says "Any data you save in your Bucket is saved in a Ceph cluster.", which suggests they use Ceph's radosgw that offers the S3-compatible API[1]. [0] https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/overview#object-storage https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/overview#obj... [1] https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/radosgw/s3/ https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/radosgw/s3/

bluedino 2y ago

What does this kind of stuff run on the back end? Is it Ceph? Is it something custom like BackBlaze B2?

marvinblum 2y ago
I think it's Minio.
- pandemicsyn 2y ago
  Its Ceph. > Our S3-compatible Object Storage provides you with storage capacity for saving data in "Buckets". Any data you save in your Bucket is saved in a Ceph cluster. from https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/overview#object-storage https://docs.hetzner.com/storage/object-storage/overview#obj...

CyberDildonics 2y ago

What is the difference between an "object store" and a file system if it runs at speeds that a basic filesystem can easily match?

moduspwnens14 2y ago
Locking semantics? Consistent listing of large numbers of files? I'm speculating but those are at least the two I can think of that aren't explicitly linked to speed equivalency of a basic filesystem.
- CyberDildonics 2y ago
  If it's on a server on the internet how would anyone know the difference?

KronisLV 2y ago

A while ago I needed something managed, very cheap and S3 compatible and I went with Contabo Object Storage: https://contabo.com/en/object-storage/ https://contabo.com/en/object-storage/ Admittedly I got my money's worth, for about 3 EUR for the very basic plan of 250 GB storage, I get upload speeds of about 6-9 MB/s and download speeds of about 25 MB/s, which is okay for what I'm trying to do. That said, it doesn't seem like there's a way to create additional users with access to only specific buckets not all of them for the same service and the overall offering does feel a bit jank (e.g. when you don't have an active service, you can't log into Contabo at all and while their Object Storage site is nice, the regular VPS one feels functional but dated). What I'm saying is that when it comes to budget options, Hetzner will probably do great, since they have a good track record and it's not like there are that many other alternatives out there! Of course, I could have also gone with just self-hosting with MinIO, Garage or SeaweedFS, as long as the VPS that I'd get would also have enough storage. It's nice that there are self-hosted options, too, I almost dread when I see bespoke object storage solutions at work, either developed before S3 was a thing or because the devs just didn't know or had a case of NIH, so I have to look at how a bunch of blobs are passed through servlets and serialized/deserialized, as well as deal with custom metadata and permission mechanisms.

simlevesque 2y ago
Your link returns a 500 right now
rmbyrro 2y ago
Backblaze seems to be 2x less expensive than Contabo.
XCSme 2y ago
I can't recommend Contabo, they have terrible support and constant hidden downtime.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Fornax96 2y ago

So, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but this announcement has extremely suspicious timing. You see, I host a cloud storage service on Hetzner. I have 12 PETABYTES of user data stored there. The data is spread over 120 of their SX type storage servers. Last week Hetzner sent me an email saying they were closing my account for an unknown reason. I have repeatedly been asking about the reason of this sudden closure, but they won't tell me. Meanwhile I have a huge problem, because I need to move 12 PB to a different hosting provider, and they only gave me until the end of November. That's an almost impossible deadline for setting up such a large storage cluster. Especially considering that Hetzner's 1 Gbps port speed makes it impossible to transfer the data in less than three weeks. Don't trust Hetzner, guys. They screwed me over real bad here, and it seems like they will be taking the hardware that I have been renting there for 10 years for themselves now. This is incredibly scummy behaviour.

Jamie9912 2y ago
>Hetzner's 1 Gbps port speed makes it impossible to transfer the data in less than three weeks But don't you have that spread over 120 servers?
- Fornax96 2y ago
  Each server has a 1 Gbps connection. Some servers are storing more than average, some have 160 TB. That's already 2 weeks at full line rate. But I also need to keep serving user traffic. I can't take the site offline for a month for a data migration, that would completely kill my business.
  - PaywallBuster 2y ago
    I'm guessing you're banned because you have such amounts of data/servers and push a substantial amount of bandwidth under the free "1gbps" card for each (even if the cache layer handles most requests directly) perharps if you moved all servers to 10G and payed for the egress over 20Tb they would reconsider your account? They still unreliable pulling stuff like this but difficult to find these hardware options off the shelf, ready for order, at this rpice

marvinblum 2y ago

We've been using Hetzner for years for Pirsch [0] now, and so far we had a great experience. I migrated all of our data from AWS S3 to their new object storage without issues. We only use it for user pictures and small files (white-labeling logos and such). This is one of the rare cases where AWS is actually cheaper for us. It's probably more worth it if you have a lot of data. The only thing we're missing now is SES, and then we've fully migrated away from AWS :) [0] https://pirsch.io https://pirsch.io

twic 2y ago

Since we're talking object storage, a question for the collective brain: are there any object storage solutions, cloud or on-prem, which support any sort of "operator pushdown"? By "operator pushdown", i mean any ability to filter or map over the contents of the object on the server side in some way, sending only the results over the network to the client. For example, say you have a huge CSV file of customer orders in a bucket. You might want to find the timestamp of all the orders which included a particular product. If all you can do is stream the whole file, then you need to do that, just to pick out a few timestamps. But you could imagine a kind of request where you say "only give me lines where the product ID is P01234, and only send the timestamp column". Perhaps you would express that as a pair of regular expressions, or a sed program, or a Lua script, or maybe the server would understand CSV and let you write something a bit like SQL. There are all sorts of ways it could be done. Providing a fully general way might be tricky, but it wouldn't need to be fully general to be useful. I appreciate that if you want to do this sort of access frequently, you should probably be using a database, not object storage. But it seems like a very useful feature to layer on top of object storage, and one that feels like it should be fairly cheap to execute - the server has to do a small extra amount of computation, but then needs a lto less network bandwidth.

rapatel0 2y ago
Look into duckdb. It's not server side, but It's pretty phenomenal for this use case.
patrickthebold 2y ago
In the AWS world, Athena does more or less what you are describing: but is is targeted (AFAIU) for large datasets. I'm not sure how it would perform on a single (small) CSV to shave off a few bytes in transit.
weberer 2y ago
Yeah, on AWS you can set up a Glue Data Catalog and query it with Athena.
dmw_ng 2y ago
That's been a feature of S3 for quite a long time now, called S3 Select https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/selecting-content-from-objects.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/select... Despite it being an awesome feature I've been itching to use, I've never actually found a use for it beyond messing around. Most places where S3 Select might make sense seems to be subsumed (for my uses) by Athena. Athena has a rather large amount of conceptual and actual boilerplate to get up and running with, though, S3 Select requires no upfront planning beyond building a fancy query string (or using their SDK wrappers) Where S3 Select is likely to become fiddly is anywhere multiple files are involved. Athena makes querying large collections of CSVs (etc) straightforward, and handles all the scheduling and results merging for you.

systemdave 2y ago

As someone who has managed many public Ceph clusters at Linode (now Akamai) since 2016 for both block and object storage, I wish the Hetzner engineers good luck! There are a _lot_ of challenges in keeping the clusters secure, reliable, and performant. Make sure you have systems or tools in place to prevent abuse. Be aware of the little nuances of Ceph, like what time lifecycle policies kick off, or when dynamic bucket resharding will kick in (and block client writes!). If possible, conduct extensive failure testing in a lab environment under simulated load to see how your clusters will really behave when it eventually happens. Triple check all of your tunables and your pool configuration. Some things like erasure coding profiles are set in stone, and once you have customer data on your clusters, there is no turning back.

espadrine 2y ago

AWS: $0.024/GB/month (S3 standard, first 50 TB/month) GCP: $0.023/GB/month (standard storage, beyond 5 GB free limit) Azure: $0.019/GB/month (hot, first 50 TB/month) Cloudflare: $0.015/GB/month (beyond 10 GB free limit) Scaleway: ~$0.013/GB/month (single-zone) Backblaze: $0.006/GB/month Hetzner: ~$5.49/month + $0.0054/GB/month (beyond 1TB free limit) Egress costs vary though.

layer8 2y ago
In slightly different terms, Hetzner is roughly 5 €/TB/month of storage plus 1 €/TB of egress (ex. VAT).
- coolspot 2y ago
  In slightly different terms, Hetzner is roughly $0.006/Gb/month , similar to Backblaze
chasely 2y ago
Working at a startup that deals in large data (our storage is measured in PB), egress is the only thing thing that matters if we're going to choose a new storage provider. And an automated class management system a la S3 or GCS.
- huntaub 2y ago
  I'm always surprised to hear that folks really think about egress costs. I think that's true if you're egressing across the internet for things like photos (i.e. if I'm embedding an image stored on S3 in my website), but for most use cases -- you should store your data in the object storage system that's in the same cloud as your compute to avoid those charges and performance penalties.
  - chasely 2y ago
    We're saying the same thing, really. Basically until AWS/GCP/Azure have minimal egress fees there is no way we can switch over to a different storage provider. They obviously know this so it will probably never happen.

impulser_ 2y ago

How does Hetzner compare to DigitalOcean? Lately I have seen a lot of people pushing Hetzner.