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WiFi4EU initiative provides free Wi-Fi in public spaces across Europe
- yreg 2y agoThis kind of apps/databases was much more necessary before EU got rid of (most of the) data roaming fees.
- waihtis 2y agoyeah I have free roaming up until like 20GB in the EU with a 25e per month contract. Removes really any need to use wifi when travelling
- j_maffe 2y agoStill nice to be able to open your tablet/laptop somewhere and get some work done without worrying about consumption.
- GTP 2y agoThis is indeed an old initiative, it's not a new thing.
- yunohn 2y agoIn my experience, every mobile service provider (in NL at least) has different rules and restrictions on roaming data usage. For example, reduced data quotas, reduced data speeds, no guaranteed 4G/5G, etc.
- rich_sasha 2y agoHow does this mesh with 5G? I don't use it (old phone) but I understood 5G is meant to offer similar bandwidth - and in fact somehow WiFi can be a part of a 5G network (maybe this bit I'm getting wrong...).
- vel0city 2y ago5G WiFi and 5G the collection of cell phone technology standards have practically nothing in common other than they're both collection of RF signaling standards. 5G for cell phones means the 5th generation of standards, 5G for WiFi is meaning WiFi networks operating around 5GHz (5.15–5.85 GHz). Which 5Ghz WiFi is quite a ways away RF-wise from the normal 2.4GHz. Just to make things confusing, there's also WiFi 5 (previously known as 802.11ac) which is a collection of WiFi standards. You can operate WiFi 5 on 5GHz. But you could also operate WiFi 4 (previously known as 802.11n) on 5GHz or 2.4GHz. WiFi 6 operates on 2.4GHz or 5GHz, and 6E operates on 2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz. WiFi 7 and 8 operate on 2.4, 5, and 6GHz.
- sva_ 2y ago[flagged]
- vel0city 2y agoThe band for 6GHz WiFi channels does dip a bit into 7GHz (up to 7125MHz) frequencies, but it's still normally called operating in 6GHz mode. You wouldn't normally say you're operating a 7G WiFi network, despite there being two 40MHz channels which exist entirely above 7000MHz Also, those channels aren't allowed in all countries. You can't use those freqencies in EU countries, Japan, Russia, and more.
- rich_sasha 2y agoOh yes, I was aware there is WiFi at 5GHz, also called 5G. Rather, I understood that the behemoth that is "5G mobile internet" somehow incorporates wifi too. But maybe I just got myself confused there.
- rvnx 2y ago80 hotspots in a single building, and none in the city. Seems like public funds were well used again.
- dewey 2y agoMaybe it's just not adopted in your city yet? > Connect to over 93 000 hotspots across the EU:
- lxgr 2y agoIt's quite likely that some of these networks already had existing infrastructure used for something else (e.g. local free Wi-Fi under a different SSID, or a network used for some other non-public purpose), in which case 80 hotspots (probably meaning single access points?) would really not be unusual. I've seen this happen in some airports or even entire cities that broadcast the Eduroam SSID as well. Most curiously, I've seen at least one drink vending machine in Japan broadcasting functional Eduroam.
- benjymo 2y agoLooking at a few spots around me, it seems it includes some hotspots in public buildings and museums and so on. So on the map it shows e.g. 30 hotspots in a museum, which seems OK as you probably need that many for coverage indoors with the amount of people typically there.
- landgenoot 2y agoWhy are they using yet another SSID? Shouldn't this be compatible with Openroaming? The map in the app does not load while offline, btw.
- lxgr 2y agoDoes Openroaming require users to create an account? I'm not sure if this does. At a first glance, Openroaming also seems to use "Passpoint"/WPA Enterprise, which not nearly all devices support, so at least a backup SSID makes sense.
- GeorgeSBurgess 2y agoOpenRoaming, like Eduroam, requires an Identity Provider (IdP). This would be something that you could call an account. At least you would only need to create this once and the WiFi operators wouldn't see the details of your account, only the IdP would.
- GeorgeSBurgess 2y agoWiFi4EU phase 1 isn't a federated WiFi network, it uses whatever the WiFi operator uses. This makes a shared SSID less relevant. Not sure if phase 2, which will be OpenRoaming like, is active yet.
- dewey 2y ago> The budget of the WiFi4EU initiative is EUR 120 million between 2018 and 2020. Looks like this is not a new thing, it would be nice to have a more unified experience across the EU (Just like https://eduroam.org https://eduroam.org), but I wonder if it would be more useful to have a unified minimum data cap on mobile networks instead of building out WiFi coverage across cities?
- lxgr 2y agoWi-Fi has the advantage of being usable on devices without a cell modem as well, such as most laptops, e-readers etc. That said, now that many phones support dual-SIM, I do wish there was a low-friction way to connect to a local 5G network without downloading an eSIM profile and all that.
- chrisweekly 2y agoDoesn't tethering (laptop <- wifi -> phone <- 5g -> internet) solve that?
- lxgr 2y agoLargely, but not everyone has unlimited data (especially not when traveling), and my laptop battery is much larger than my phone's too.
- chgs 2y agoI’m currently charging my phone from my laptop. And tethering off my phone as the wifi on Amtrak (which could be great if it had a starlink dish on the top) is awful and keeps going back to unauthorised. I haven’t really had much signal problem and I’m not travelling through particularly built up areas (on the New York to Miami train, nearing the GA/FL border)
- lxgr 2y agoThat definitely works, but it requires a cable, balancing two devices on a potentially small seatback tray etc. On most trains I've traveled on, Wi-Fi (if available) also works much better since the antenna for that is usually on top of the train, and windows are sometimes coated with a metallic paint to keep out solar radiation.
- sflefties 2y ago[dead]
- morningsam 2y agoNIH as far as the eye can see: Germany already has a grassroots, volunteer-run network of free WiFi hotspots called Freifunk [1], which has pretty decent coverage in a lot of the larger cities. I'm sure similar initiatives exist in other EU countries. Does Wifi4EU leverage this in any way? Nope, there is no way for volunteer-run networks to get included in the app [2]. Instead, it looks like municipalities have to apply for Wifi4EU funding (which they currently can't because "The next call has not been announced."), set up brand new hotspots themselves, and only then are eligible for inclusion in the app's database. [3] [1]: https://freifunk.net/ https://freifunk.net/ [2]: https://forum.freifunk.net/t/wifi4eu-vs-freifunk/21686 https://forum.freifunk.net/t/wifi4eu-vs-freifunk/21686 [3]: https://wifi4eu.ec.europa.eu/ https://wifi4eu.ec.europa.eu/
- szundi 2y agoSome russian and chinese volunteers, just what we need
- sulandor 2y agoimho "free wifi" is not to be trusted in any case
- deepsun 2y agoYet users will use whatever is available. E.g. people routinely send SMS with sensitive data, even though SMS is probably the least trustworthy channel. They can only help that by securing the equipment and networks. Telling public "don't trust these because foreign hackers" is not going to do much.
- hedora 2y agoIf you pay for icloud, there’s a button in iOS that tunnels everything over a tor-wannabe vpn. There’s no real reason to trust wifi access points at this point, or demand they be trustworthy.
- cachedthing0 2y agoFrom the site: "Privacy-friendly with no tracking: Your privacy is important. The WiFi4EU app ensures a private online experience with no tracking or data collection." This app can only be installed via the GOOGLE/APPLE app stores, so this is a lie.
- dietr1ch 2y agoIs it not on fDroid? Does it prevent sideloading?
- jeroenhd 2y agoNot all free apps are on F-Droid, because a) very few companies/projects want to/can be trusted to provide and maintain an up-to-date F-Droid repository of their own, and installing repositories is less-than user friendly to say the least and b) the standard repository only contains open-source applications _that have had their build system modified to match F-Droid's_ and have been vetted by the project. With F-Droid requiring either of those options by design, I don't think we'll see many government-run projects get F-Droid repositories. That said, I doubt anyone will have a problem grabbing the .apk from somewhere internet and installing it that way. I'm annoyed that they made this project app-based. I'd like to be able to use my computer on one of these networks...
- ojagodzinski 2y agoBut why? For 7EUR/month I have 30GB of data transfer + unlimited SMS and calls in my my country + ~8GB of data in whole EU, every month. There is no cheaper option. Who needs public Wi-Fi? EU should increase the competitiveness of communication operators and not finance such stupid ideas. Also map in that app is online only. So you need internet access to get internet access...
- politelemon 2y agoPerhaps you are assuming that your conditions, plans, and access are exactly the same across all ~500 million people in the EU.
- jeroenhd 2y agoBecause of shit like https://www.telekom.de/shop/tarife/smartphone-tarife?tariffId=MF_17255 https://www.telekom.de/shop/tarife/smartphone-tarife?tariffI... Data prices vary wildly by country. And no, you cannot use a foreign carrier to get cheap data and roam all year, they'll find you and charge out-of-package pricing for every gigabyte you've used (which isn't the standard rate).
- gruturo 2y agoTrue but if you go to Telekom you're basically _asking_ to pay a lot. A 30 second search cuts that price already by 66%: https://www.alditalk.de/kombi-pakete https://www.alditalk.de/kombi-pakete https://www.nettokom.de/tarif/nettokom-smart-l/ https://www.nettokom.de/tarif/nettokom-smart-l/ If you can settle for 50Mbps (not really 5G, but already Aldi and Netto had a 100Mbps limit which is... basically the ITU definition of 4G), here's 50GB/month for 13 EUR: https://www.lebara.de/de/vertrag/hello-flex/hello-25-flex.html https://www.lebara.de/de/vertrag/hello-flex/hello-25-flex.ht...
- caseyy 2y agoWiFi map: https://wifi4eu.ec.europa.eu/#/list-accesspoints https://wifi4eu.ec.europa.eu/#/list-accesspoints
- dkasper 2y agoUnpopular view perhaps, but public WiFi seems obsolete except for where cell signal can’t reach. 5G is usually faster and somewhat more secure than connecting to access points.
- fullspectrumdev 2y agoDepends where you are. In some European countries (Germany) mobile data is expensive. And mobile coverage even in cities can be kind of shit.
- chgs 2y agoCould you not simply get an eSIM from another country with better costs and use free roaming?
- looperhacks 2y agoLast time I looked into this, there were no (cheap) providers that allow you to permanently reside in another country
- ffsm8 2y agoDepends on the definition of cheap. I.e. firstly is available in most countries afaik, no matter where your residence is. https://www.firsty.app/ https://www.firsty.app/ It's not very cheap if you want to use it for months, but plenty of other options around too
- RandomThoughts3 2y agoFirstly is extremely expensive. To give you an idea, my 200Gb/month 5G uncapped speed plan costs me 14 euros a month here in France. Amusingly this plan includes 40Gb/month in Germany at no additional costs which is much cheaper than a German plan.
- eertami 2y ago
- efdee 2y agoWhat's the point? 5G is cheap in Europe, with no additional roaming costs between countries.
- krick 2y agoThere is some difference in included data packages between home and EU-roaming, but, yeah, it feels like it's about 10 years late. FWIF, 10 years ago I saw much more of free public WiFi. One part why it changed surely is security reasons, the other is just that people don't really need it that much, I think. I definitely don't rely on it that much (I do sometimes, because far cellular networks are not always available). IDK, maybe I would feel different if I used laptop on the go more, but I doubt it. Having a mobile phone seems to cover it now.
- efdee 2y agoThere should not be. The law specifically says there should not be a difference in home use vs EU-roaming. I think you raise a good point though. I'm automatically suspicious of free WiFi.
- krick 2y agoYou are misinterptreting the law. I won't recollect the specifics now, but I wouldn't bother to comment if I wouldn't know for a fact there is a difference in data packages. My current plan, for instance, is no-limit for a small subset of EU/EEA countries, and about 30 GB cap for the rest of EU/EEA.
- lxgr 2y agoNo, the law explicitly carves out limitations for heavy users that phone operators can (but don't have to) implement. Some do (especially those in markets with relatively cheap plans or large data allowances), others don't.
- satyamkapoor 2y agoCheaper definitely depends on the region. In Germany a decent 5G without throttle is extremely expensive.
- user070223 2y agoAlthea Networks provide openwrt firmware which allows to buy/sell data by usage(micro transaction) on the fly, some cryptocurrency is/was involved which make some sense if you think about it(This and Filecoin might be the only projects which it makes sense IMHO). Wider adoption could incentivize the pricing to be as close to commodity. https://www.althea.net/ https://www.althea.net/
- lostmsu 2y agoYou can do it yourself: http://openwireless.org/ http://openwireless.org/
- yupyupyups 2y agoDoes it require identification?
- anthk 2y ago>Privacy friendly >Releases it as closed non-free software No, thanks.
- ciberado 2y agoWe have some spots here in Martorell (25km away from Barcelona). Really handy for those public places (like the public gym), as the mobile coverage is not great at all there (strong shadow zone, for whatever the reason). You don't need authentication: you accept terms of use, and you are good to go. Also, there is a cap in the amount of data that you can use each day (based on MAC, I guess), but it is generous enough to allow me to stream for youtube from one hour at the gym, or to work for two hours when I'm in the mood of doing it from the garden near the swimming pool. A friend of mine told me that the EU is paying the local administration for the equipment and installation, but there is an explicit condition in the contract that blocks any kind of personal tracking. So I would say this is a neat project. And 120M€ for an entity of this size doesn't look like an extraordinary amount of money.
- arielcostas 2y agoYes, the initiative is from the EU for local administrations (so the Ajuntament gets the money for setting it up), though I didn't know there were bandwidth limits. I can't speak for every install, but some of them do the tracking based on MAC (since it's the only identifier the network gets), so I guess you could avoid it by randomising your MAC and connecting again.
- butz 2y agoGreat! I hope next initiative will be moving all municipality and public services from closed platforms to Fediverse.