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There are cases where AI can recognise gender on an X-ray when humans can't, find tumors that experienced doctor's can't. This must mean that human doctors look

There are cases where AI can recognise gender on an X-ray when humans can't, find tumors that experienced doctor's can't. This must mean that human doctors looking at Xrays use just boring pattern recognition and AI has actual concepts of what it's seeing.

johnisgood 2y ago
That is actually pretty cool, but I believe you meant to say "biological sex" instead of "gender". :P I have no clue how an AI may find the gender (which is in the mind) of someone through x-rays alone.
- WithinReason 2y ago
  the mathematical correlation between the two is so high as to be negligible
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    What does this mean? I do not think anyone could determine my gender based on x-rays alone. My biological sex, however, definitely.
    - WithinReason 2y ago
      It's simple math. If the correlation between gender and sex is 0.99 then if a method can determine your sex with say a 90% accuracy then it can determine your gender with an 89% accuracy (very roughly). The difference is negligible.
- jxjx 2y ago
  "Gender" is often used as a synonym of "sex". The more recent and somewhat controversial concept of it being an identity isn't the only sense of the word.
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    > "Gender" is often used as a synonym of "sex" It used to be the case, yes, I agree, but these days people are referring to gender identity when they talk about gender, IME.
lifeisstillgood 2y ago
But does it really? Or is it more observant than a human doctor and more thorough, but only at the limited task of deciding if this X-ray looks like the million other X-rays of a male abdomen versus the million X-rays of a female abdomen. I assume counting the number of ribs is not what is meant …
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
lewhoo 2y ago
Those certainly were the catchy headlines. Here's an interesting article: https://news.mit.edu/2024/study-reveals-why-ai-analyzed-medical-images-can-be-biased-0628 https://news.mit.edu/2024/study-reveals-why-ai-analyzed-medi... “We found that even state-of-the-art models which are optimally performant in data similar to their training sets are not optimal — that is, they do not make the best trade-off between overall and subgroup performance — in novel settings,” Ghassemi says. “Unfortunately, this is actually how a model is likely to be deployed. Most models are trained and validated with data from one hospital, or one source, and then deployed widely.”

johnisgood 2y ago

That is actually pretty cool, but I believe you meant to say "biological sex" instead of "gender". :P I have no clue how an AI may find the gender (which is in the mind) of someone through x-rays alone.

WithinReason 2y ago
the mathematical correlation between the two is so high as to be negligible
- johnisgood 2y ago
  What does this mean? I do not think anyone could determine my gender based on x-rays alone. My biological sex, however, definitely.
  - WithinReason 2y ago
    It's simple math. If the correlation between gender and sex is 0.99 then if a method can determine your sex with say a 90% accuracy then it can determine your gender with an 89% accuracy (very roughly). The difference is negligible.
jxjx 2y ago
"Gender" is often used as a synonym of "sex". The more recent and somewhat controversial concept of it being an identity isn't the only sense of the word.
- johnisgood 2y ago
  > "Gender" is often used as a synonym of "sex" It used to be the case, yes, I agree, but these days people are referring to gender identity when they talk about gender, IME.

lifeisstillgood 2y ago

But does it really? Or is it more observant than a human doctor and more thorough, but only at the limited task of deciding if this X-ray looks like the million other X-rays of a male abdomen versus the million X-rays of a female abdomen. I assume counting the number of ribs is not what is meant …

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

lewhoo 2y ago

Those certainly were the catchy headlines. Here's an interesting article: https://news.mit.edu/2024/study-reveals-why-ai-analyzed-medical-images-can-be-biased-0628 https://news.mit.edu/2024/study-reveals-why-ai-analyzed-medi... “We found that even state-of-the-art models which are optimally performant in data similar to their training sets are not optimal — that is, they do not make the best trade-off between overall and subgroup performance — in novel settings,” Ghassemi says. “Unfortunately, this is actually how a model is likely to be deployed. Most models are trained and validated with data from one hospital, or one source, and then deployed widely.”