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Maybe because Ukrainians are right about Russians? Killing innocent people and starting an aggressive war for land and power somehow justifies them being called
by cynicalsecurity 2y ago
Maybe because Ukrainians are right about Russians? Killing innocent people and starting an aggressive war for land and power somehow justifies them being called orcs, don't you think so?
- ossobuco 2y ago[flagged]
- metabagel 2y agoTo be clear, Ukraine was invaded, children kidnapped, summary executions, and women raped by the Russian soldiers. Plus, Russia launched missile strikes against hospitals, schools, apartment buildings, playgrounds, and supermarkets. Plus, indiscriminate glide bomb attacks against cities. I occasionally call them orcs too. It’s an apt description.
- ossobuco 2y ago[flagged]
- metabagel 2y agoNo, the U.S. has not done worse than Russia has in this war. Not even in Vietnam, I think. But, I guess we were orcs when we invaded and occupied Iraq, since we had no business being there. With regard to Israelis, any sort of othering will be perceived as antisemitism. But, what Israel is doing in Gaza is on par with what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
- ossobuco 2y ago> No, the U.S. has not done worse than Russia has in this war. Not even in Vietnam, I think. Rethink[0]. It just takes some basic math to understand that the USA has done much worse, even if we just consider civilian deaths estimates. Hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. And for what, to stop communism? Is that a valid reason to devastate three countries? > But, I guess we were orcs when we invaded and occupied Iraq Orcs once, orcs forever. Isn't that how it works? If you can call an entire population "orcs", then there must be some intrinsic evil rooted in their ethnicity, culture, or whatever it is. - [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties#Deaths_caused_by_the_American_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties#Deaths_...
- oneshtein 2y agoCommunists killed more than 100 millions worldwide, not thousands.
- ossobuco 2y ago25k people starve to death each day[0]. Those deaths all happen in capitalist economies. That's 9 million each year, for who knows how many years since we developed the necessary technology to have a surplus of food. We're talking about hundreds of millions of preventable deaths, if not more. That's just the result of a very inefficient economic system—without even counting wars, lack of healthcare, and so on. I'll happily choose communism over such an incredibly unjust system, even if it caused "100 million" deaths worldwide, as you say. That number is complete BS, by the way. - [0]: https://www.un.org/en/chronicle/article/losing-25000-hunger-every-day https://www.un.org/en/chronicle/article/losing-25000-hunger-...
- mopsi 2y agoWhich of the countries facing hunger have anything resembling a modern market economy?
- ossobuco 2y agoThe real question is why don't they have a modern market economy, and if they all did, what would happen to the existing modern market economies?
- mopsi 2y agoThat was a long way of saying "none". Massive food surplus is a feature of efficient market economies. By rejecting it on ideological grounds, it should come as no surprise that countries like Afghanistan or North Korea end up with hunger. Their development into modern countries would free others from the burden of having to provide food and other aid to their starving citizens.
- af78 2y agoExactly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol In this example, one among countless others, russia killed tens of thousands of civilians, in a couple of months. russia caused more suffering in a few months of war than the USA in a decade in Vietnam. Comparing the two is utterly dishonest.
- protomolecule 2y ago[flagged]
- aguaviva 2y ago[flagged]
- aguaviva 2y agoRussia caused more suffering in a few months of war than the USA in a decade in Vietnam. Absolutely and obviously false, as you will quickly reveal to yourself by spending a few seconds looking up the toll of civilian deaths and maimings during the US-driven conflict in Vietnam. Comparing the two is utterly dishonest. The comparison is in any case completely vacuous. There's no indication that you're being dishonest here, however. Most likely it's a case of simple willful ignorance. In this example, one among countless others, There are exactly 3 others since WW2: Chechnya, Syria, Afghanistan. Their number is not, by any stretch, "countless".
- af78 2y agoBy 'countless', I was referring to events in this war other than Mariupol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_inva... Of course russia committed many more in the wars you cited. And we could add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_January https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_January https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
- Muromec 2y agoUSAers didn't try to kill me and my family in the last 50 years. I truly understand you if they or Israel did and you call them names.
- af78 2y agoLiteral whataboutism.
- ossobuco 2y agoNah, just the context required to point out the hypocrisy of any USAer trying to exercise morality over other countries.
- af78 2y agoThe comment you were replying to seemed to relativize, contextualize the use of a dehumanizing term (‘orc’) that is frequently used by Ukrainians and supporters of Ukraine when talking about russian invaders. Whether the Vietnamese or the Palestinians similarly use dehumanizing terms about Americans or Israelis is irrelevant, just like the nationality, US or otherwise, of the person making this comment.
- protomolecule 2y ago[flagged]
- protomolecule 2y ago[flagged]
- protomolecule 2y ago[flagged]
- EasyMark 2y agoLiterally none of that matters. Russia (at Putin’s whim) is the 100% aggressor here, pretty much all other concerns go out the window since it is 100% preventable with a simple Russian withdrawal and it all ends in hours.
- protomolecule 2y agoAnd this whole war was preventable by NATO ceasing its expansion.
- Muromec 2y agoIt's important to put the line between yourself and the people who go in assault waves at your trench to preserve your own sanity. The thing is more of a natural response then top-down motivation in Ukrainian case.
- Aeolun 2y agoYou kind of need to think of the enemy as ‘not human’ if you want to reliably shoot them.