4 ms·

> The zerosync website says this: >> But where Zero really shines is “local-first” style applications like Linear and Superhuman. It is a difficult thing to c

> The zerosync website says this: >> But where Zero really shines is “local-first” style applications like Linear and Superhuman. It is a difficult thing to communicate since the vast majority of people interested in Zero are coming looking for "local-first". And for better or worse what they have in mind is Linear (it's a very popular and widely respected bug tracker that calls itself local-first) not Apple Notes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTMyOtvBJ_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTMyOtvBJ_g I'll think about how to reword. I'm officially (waves hands in proclamation) inviting you to the next local-first conf. It's crazy fun. Tons of smart people working on all things sync. https://www.localfirstconf.com/ https://www.localfirstconf.com/

josephg 2y ago
Hah I'll watch the video when I have a chance. Thanks for the invite - I'll have to wait and see when the time & place are announced. Maybe I'll see you there!
Aeolun 2y ago
I don’t get it. Why would you call something that needs a server to work local-first :? My app that stores its state on my local disk with optional sync to a server is local-first. If the server goes away, the app continues working flawlessly, you just won’t be able to sync any more (unless you host your own server). I find it hard to imagine people think of Linear when they hear local first.
- aboodman 2y ago
  You don't have to imagine: https://www.google.com/search?q=local-first+linear https://www.google.com/search?q=local-first+linear
andrewingram 2y ago
I think there are two valid interpretations of the words “local-first”. 1) The outcome of all interactions can be seen locally first, but are sent to a server too. Optimistic updates on steroids, largely done to make software seem faster. Linear is the notable example. 2) The app is built so that it’s fully functional and useful without any kind of internet connectivity. But if network _is_ available, there are some augmented capabilities. Think note-taking apps like the one built into MacOS and iOS, or Bear
- josephg 2y ago
  Right. And I think only (2) should count as local first software. And only (2) fits the definition provided by the local first software paper. Option (1) is a legitimately useful way to build software. I wish more apps considered offline support. But I don't think "it works offline" is enough to make something count as local first software. For example, I don't consider Dropbox to be a "local first" tool. I'm worried the "local first" term will be watered down by projects like this. That distinction matters. At least to me.
  - BodyCulture 2y ago
    The crypto coin world is based on an Orwellian abuse of words / meanings.
  - wezter96 2y ago
    [dead]
_shibru_ 2y ago
Exactly this, "local-first" here mostly is a marketing term rather than a technical one. I'll tell you a funny(real) story. where i live there is a popular valley, well let's call it X-Valley. the name is very popular and gets a lot of tourism to the valley, so much so that all the surrounding valleys now advertise them as X-Valleys on the internet. and they get a lot of (re: majority of) their tourism business from doing that. Second is the people's understanding of the term "local-first", I doubt many truly understand the real one from ink&switch. what a good chunk of them are really looking for is offline-first or even optimistic-ui based sync system.

josephg 2y ago

Hah I'll watch the video when I have a chance. Thanks for the invite - I'll have to wait and see when the time & place are announced. Maybe I'll see you there!

Aeolun 2y ago

I don’t get it. Why would you call something that needs a server to work local-first :? My app that stores its state on my local disk with optional sync to a server is local-first. If the server goes away, the app continues working flawlessly, you just won’t be able to sync any more (unless you host your own server). I find it hard to imagine people think of Linear when they hear local first.

aboodman 2y ago
You don't have to imagine: https://www.google.com/search?q=local-first+linear https://www.google.com/search?q=local-first+linear

andrewingram 2y ago

I think there are two valid interpretations of the words “local-first”. 1) The outcome of all interactions can be seen locally first, but are sent to a server too. Optimistic updates on steroids, largely done to make software seem faster. Linear is the notable example. 2) The app is built so that it’s fully functional and useful without any kind of internet connectivity. But if network _is_ available, there are some augmented capabilities. Think note-taking apps like the one built into MacOS and iOS, or Bear

josephg 2y ago
Right. And I think only (2) should count as local first software. And only (2) fits the definition provided by the local first software paper. Option (1) is a legitimately useful way to build software. I wish more apps considered offline support. But I don't think "it works offline" is enough to make something count as local first software. For example, I don't consider Dropbox to be a "local first" tool. I'm worried the "local first" term will be watered down by projects like this. That distinction matters. At least to me.
- BodyCulture 2y ago
  The crypto coin world is based on an Orwellian abuse of words / meanings.
- wezter96 2y ago
  [dead]

_shibru_ 2y ago

Exactly this, "local-first" here mostly is a marketing term rather than a technical one. I'll tell you a funny(real) story. where i live there is a popular valley, well let's call it X-Valley. the name is very popular and gets a lot of tourism to the valley, so much so that all the surrounding valleys now advertise them as X-Valleys on the internet. and they get a lot of (re: majority of) their tourism business from doing that. Second is the people's understanding of the term "local-first", I doubt many truly understand the real one from ink&switch. what a good chunk of them are really looking for is offline-first or even optimistic-ui based sync system.