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I'd be to pay a premium for a device like this if I wasn't limited to the manufacturers own app for collecting and interpreting data. As is? Nah...

by mikae1 2y ago

generalizations 2y ago
I was curious about getting one of these things, and your comment prompted me to find this - looks like it's totally possible to collect & interpret yourself: https://github.com/Pinta365/oura_api https://github.com/Pinta365/oura_api
- juliangoldsmith 2y ago
  That still requires going through Oura's API, which is where the second/third-party data collection happens. I think the concern is privacy, not the user's access to the data.
- margalabargala 2y ago
  That appears to be connecting to Oura's servers, collecting the data they choose to share. You are still at the whim of the company, who can turn off that data spigot any time it becomes expedient for them. There's no way to get the data off of the device and use it yourself, without the same data going to their servers. You pay hundreds of dollars for a device that doesn't let you use it, and rely on the kindness of the company to know your own heartrate.
  - dotBen 2y ago
    Very few people want to interface with a wearable locally and store the data locally (esp via a mobile app given the use case here). I have spent my entire career messing around with APIs and platforms and I have no interest in doing this DIY. oAuth into Oura ring's servers, which is totally available to you, is just fine. If privacy is this much of a concern, why wear a trackable wearable in the first place?
    - m463 2y ago
      > Very few people want to interface with a wearable locally I think people WOULD like to keep their health data local, if given the option. But companies do things in their own self-interest, including carefully crafted product descriptions, privacy policies, apis, protocols and apps. I will mention Garmin watches don't require activation or to be "connected" to work.
      - ErikBjare 2y ago
        I didn't know Garmin allowed this, are there apps for self-hosting/self-sync without Garmin servers?
      - krick 2y ago
        You seem to have some very peculiar definition of "work". To display time, maybe? I don't think I need to buy a $800 fitness watch for that. And you cannot export any data without "connecting". Hell, you cannot really do that after connecting too, except to download each gpx track manually via very unfriely interface, or, if you happen to be European, find a very well hidden GDPR-compliance form on a separate site to request export of your data, which you'll receive (in up to 3 days, they warn you) on your email in very user-unfriendly format, without any docs or APIs on how to process it. And you need to be their business-partner (like Strava, I suppose) to actually get access to any APIs.
        m463 2y ago
        Possibly peculiar for you. If you don't find value in maintaining your privacy, there's no reason to put others down that try. In any case garmin watches are not all $800. In comparison, most other devices require activation to work. Have you tried to use an apple watch or a fitbit? I have a garmin watch, have never used bluetooth, wifi, garmin connect, etc. It keeps track of my health and activities, motivates and makes recommendations. It's really useful to track sleep and fitness level. The only local thing it does not do is EKG, they lock that until you go online and give your location as in the US.
    - juliangoldsmith 2y ago
ValentineC 2y ago
It looks like Oura at least writes to Apple Health [1], so there's some portability. [1] https://support.ouraring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025438734-How-to-Use-Apple-Health-with-Oura https://support.ouraring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025438734-...
- islewis 2y ago
  So instead of Oura owning your data, Oura _and_ Apple own it?
  - dmicah 2y ago
    You can export data from Apple Health to XML.
  - ValentineC 2y ago
    Apple claims that Health data is end-to-end encrypted, both in storage and transmission: https://support.apple.com/en-us/111755 https://support.apple.com/en-us/111755
  - Youden 2y ago
    Think of Apple Health as more like the Photos app on iOS than an online service like Garmin Connect or Google Fit or something like that. Apple Health data are only stored on your device unless you choose to synchronize them to iCloud, in which case they're e2e encrypted. Apple does occasionally offer the option to contribute to research studies, in which case they'd have access to the relevant data but this is an explicit opt-in. All the Apple Health data are also available through HealthKit APIs so that they can be used in other apps, including various export apps (though export is also a native feature). Use of this API requires an explicit app-specific and data category-specific opt-in from the user. All this is to say: I don't think it's accurate to say Apple owns your data in this case. Apple likes to put themselves as privacy-first and you may disagree more generally whether they live up to their image but IMO this is one of the cases where they've done a pretty good job.
  - anonymousiam 2y ago
    You can download all the data at any time from the Oura website. https://cloud.ouraring.com/dashboard https://cloud.ouraring.com/dashboard Log in to Oura on the Web with your Oura account details Select the profile OOTW profile.png in the upper right corner > My Account Under Export Data, you'll find options to download Oura metrics in either CSV or JSON format
bbor 2y ago
I’m guessing this is part of their “startup-y-ness” that they need to sell the possibility of insane growth to VCs? Because just from an engineering perspective, I don’t see why it needs a monthly subscription to run a server crunching the numbers — couldn’t iOS and Android health apps handle all this data pretty well, with all-local processing? Maybe there’s more complicated ML pipelines involved in “adapting to your physiology” than I’m imagining… otherwise it seems like a random choice.
_yb2s 2y ago
You can export the data and analyze yourself- I do so with mine, but there is no open interface to connect directly with the device, you cannot avoid sharing your data with them.
squidgedcricket 2y ago
Completely agree. I have a Circular Slim and the device itself is awesome and some of the data visualization is pretty good. I stopped wearing it because the app is so user hostile. The ring can't sync in the backround, so each time you open the app you need to wait 30 sec while it syncs. After it syncs there are a series of popups about coins, stars, and streaks. Then you need to dig through a bunch of AI garbage to see the data. I just want to see my heartrate while I run and track my sleep. There's no need for so much gamified nonsense in the app.

I'd be to pay a premium for a device like this if I wasn't limited to the manufacturers own app for collecting and interpreting data. As is? Nah...

by mikae1 2y ago

I'd be to pay a premium for a device like this if I wasn't limited to the manufacturers own app for collecting and interpreting data. As is? Nah...

generalizations 2y ago

I was curious about getting one of these things, and your comment prompted me to find this - looks like it's totally possible to collect & interpret yourself: https://github.com/Pinta365/oura_api https://github.com/Pinta365/oura_api

juliangoldsmith 2y ago
That still requires going through Oura's API, which is where the second/third-party data collection happens. I think the concern is privacy, not the user's access to the data.
margalabargala 2y ago
That appears to be connecting to Oura's servers, collecting the data they choose to share. You are still at the whim of the company, who can turn off that data spigot any time it becomes expedient for them. There's no way to get the data off of the device and use it yourself, without the same data going to their servers. You pay hundreds of dollars for a device that doesn't let you use it, and rely on the kindness of the company to know your own heartrate.
- dotBen 2y ago
  Very few people want to interface with a wearable locally and store the data locally (esp via a mobile app given the use case here). I have spent my entire career messing around with APIs and platforms and I have no interest in doing this DIY. oAuth into Oura ring's servers, which is totally available to you, is just fine. If privacy is this much of a concern, why wear a trackable wearable in the first place?
  - m463 2y ago
    > Very few people want to interface with a wearable locally I think people WOULD like to keep their health data local, if given the option. But companies do things in their own self-interest, including carefully crafted product descriptions, privacy policies, apis, protocols and apps. I will mention Garmin watches don't require activation or to be "connected" to work.
    - ErikBjare 2y ago
      I didn't know Garmin allowed this, are there apps for self-hosting/self-sync without Garmin servers?
    - krick 2y ago
      You seem to have some very peculiar definition of "work". To display time, maybe? I don't think I need to buy a $800 fitness watch for that. And you cannot export any data without "connecting". Hell, you cannot really do that after connecting too, except to download each gpx track manually via very unfriely interface, or, if you happen to be European, find a very well hidden GDPR-compliance form on a separate site to request export of your data, which you'll receive (in up to 3 days, they warn you) on your email in very user-unfriendly format, without any docs or APIs on how to process it. And you need to be their business-partner (like Strava, I suppose) to actually get access to any APIs.
      - m463 2y ago
        Possibly peculiar for you. If you don't find value in maintaining your privacy, there's no reason to put others down that try. In any case garmin watches are not all $800. In comparison, most other devices require activation to work. Have you tried to use an apple watch or a fitbit? I have a garmin watch, have never used bluetooth, wifi, garmin connect, etc. It keeps track of my health and activities, motivates and makes recommendations. It's really useful to track sleep and fitness level. The only local thing it does not do is EKG, they lock that until you go online and give your location as in the US.
  - juliangoldsmith 2y ago

ValentineC 2y ago

It looks like Oura at least writes to Apple Health [1], so there's some portability. [1] https://support.ouraring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025438734-How-to-Use-Apple-Health-with-Oura https://support.ouraring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025438734-...

islewis 2y ago
So instead of Oura owning your data, Oura _and_ Apple own it?
- dmicah 2y ago
  You can export data from Apple Health to XML.
- ValentineC 2y ago
  Apple claims that Health data is end-to-end encrypted, both in storage and transmission: https://support.apple.com/en-us/111755 https://support.apple.com/en-us/111755
- Youden 2y ago
  Think of Apple Health as more like the Photos app on iOS than an online service like Garmin Connect or Google Fit or something like that. Apple Health data are only stored on your device unless you choose to synchronize them to iCloud, in which case they're e2e encrypted. Apple does occasionally offer the option to contribute to research studies, in which case they'd have access to the relevant data but this is an explicit opt-in. All the Apple Health data are also available through HealthKit APIs so that they can be used in other apps, including various export apps (though export is also a native feature). Use of this API requires an explicit app-specific and data category-specific opt-in from the user. All this is to say: I don't think it's accurate to say Apple owns your data in this case. Apple likes to put themselves as privacy-first and you may disagree more generally whether they live up to their image but IMO this is one of the cases where they've done a pretty good job.
- anonymousiam 2y ago
  You can download all the data at any time from the Oura website. https://cloud.ouraring.com/dashboard https://cloud.ouraring.com/dashboard Log in to Oura on the Web with your Oura account details Select the profile OOTW profile.png in the upper right corner > My Account Under Export Data, you'll find options to download Oura metrics in either CSV or JSON format

bbor 2y ago

I’m guessing this is part of their “startup-y-ness” that they need to sell the possibility of insane growth to VCs? Because just from an engineering perspective, I don’t see why it needs a monthly subscription to run a server crunching the numbers — couldn’t iOS and Android health apps handle all this data pretty well, with all-local processing? Maybe there’s more complicated ML pipelines involved in “adapting to your physiology” than I’m imagining… otherwise it seems like a random choice.

_yb2s 2y ago

You can export the data and analyze yourself- I do so with mine, but there is no open interface to connect directly with the device, you cannot avoid sharing your data with them.

squidgedcricket 2y ago

Completely agree. I have a Circular Slim and the device itself is awesome and some of the data visualization is pretty good. I stopped wearing it because the app is so user hostile. The ring can't sync in the backround, so each time you open the app you need to wait 30 sec while it syncs. After it syncs there are a series of popups about coins, stars, and streaks. Then you need to dig through a bunch of AI garbage to see the data. I just want to see my heartrate while I run and track my sleep. There's no need for so much gamified nonsense in the app.