6 ms·

Receipt printers are fun but take care not to buy toxic paper https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/03/the-health-risk-of-bpa-in-receipts/index.htm htt

Receipt printers are fun but take care not to buy toxic paper https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/03/the-health-risk-of-bpa-in-receipts/index.htm https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/03/the-health-...

gzalo 2y ago
I wonder if it's feasible to make diy Thermal paper using lemon juice, like the old "invisible ink experiment"
- desdenova 2y ago
  Should be easy enough to test if you have a thermal printer. Just spread lemon juice on paper, wait for it to dry, and try printing on it.
amelius 2y ago
Does this warning also hold for thermal label printers? I have this one: https://www.creativebloq.com/reviews-niimbot-d110 https://www.creativebloq.com/reviews-niimbot-d110
- autoexec 2y ago
  Yes, but it looks like you can get tape for it that is BPA/BPS free.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  Brother P-touch uses thermal transfer where pigment is bonded to a substrate rather than a chemical phase change and is safe.
kragen 2y ago
Assuming BPA is what you're worried about (it's not "toxic" by the usual definitions but still something you may want to avoid) there isn't another mainstream option.
- noja 2y ago
  > it's not "toxic" by the usual definitions iirc if you have wet hands you absorb way more and it is toxic
  - kragen 2y ago
    I can't find any evidence that anyone has ever died from bisphenol-A poisoning. Searching the medical literature finds no case studies of emergency-room visits or dying epoxy painters. Rat studies like https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=408a3aba1ee58b1a112d69b840391e15546fd701 https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&d... and https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236345183_Pathological_mechanisms_of_liver_injury_caused_by_oral_administration_of_bisphenol_A https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236345183_Pathologi... come up with acutely lethal oral doses around 2000–3000 milligrams per kilogram, by which measure it has about the same toxicity as table salt. It also has about the same pharmacokinetic half-life as table salt. The concerns (documented meticulously in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_Bisphenol_A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_Bisphenol_A) are largely about its possible effects as a xenoestrogen, and in particular its potential to cause obesity. There have also been concerns that chronic exposure might be carcinogenic, but so far those haven't panned out, so it's clear that if BPA exposure has an effect on cancer risk, either positive or negative, it's very small in magnitude. I don't think there's anything in the obesity concern, because the obesity pandemic seems to be associated with eating ultra-processed food rather than handling thermal-printer receipts or drinking out of Nalgene bottles. My best guess is that we'll find out that a few food additives that became popular 50 years ago upset the intestinal microbiome in a way that promotes obesity. In the meantime, though, it doesn't seem unreasonable to try to minimize your exposure to the stuff, even if ultimately it turns out to be harmless or only slightly harmful. But I wouldn't worry about it. Eating synthetic imitations of food, though, seems overwhelmingly likely to be bad for you.
    - desdenova 2y ago
      > My best guess is that we'll find out that a few food additives that became popular 50 years ago upset the intestinal microbiome in a way that promotes obesity. People can get drunk enough to fail a breath test, just from eating industrialized bread. There's so much chemical crap added to industrialized food we're not even aware of, unless we send each item to a lab for testing before we eat. But yeah, people sure must be getting fat because the McDonald's cashier gave them a receipt made of bad paper...
z2 2y ago
The most mainstream phenol free thermal paper out there is one made from a branded chemical "pergafast" which is supposedly based off of urea. This is increasingly the type used by big brand stores where the paper is advertised as BPA and BPS free. It appears safe in studies so far in terms of not being absorbed through the skin nor endocrine disrupting, but is also known to be highly toxic to aquatic life. There's another chemical related to vitamin c branded "Alpha Free" but it's harder to find. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0273230015000033 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02732...
- account42 2y ago
  Always remember that X-free or similar claims of not being toxic only means that the substances used instead of X are not yet known to be as toxic (or at just that the laws haven't caught up yet). It isn't guarantee that the new product is any safer than X and it might even be less safe. After all, the X in question was also seen as perfectly fine at some point.
  - ComputerGuru 2y ago
    It's actually known that many of the alternatives companies have substituted for BPA are equally or more dangerous; they're just not blacklisted by the FDA so companies continue to use them with impunity. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/bpa-substitutes-safer-harmful https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/bpa-subst... https://archive.is/Bu6TE https://archive.is/Bu6TE

gzalo 2y ago

I wonder if it's feasible to make diy Thermal paper using lemon juice, like the old "invisible ink experiment"

desdenova 2y ago
Should be easy enough to test if you have a thermal printer. Just spread lemon juice on paper, wait for it to dry, and try printing on it.

amelius 2y ago

Does this warning also hold for thermal label printers? I have this one: https://www.creativebloq.com/reviews-niimbot-d110 https://www.creativebloq.com/reviews-niimbot-d110

autoexec 2y ago
Yes, but it looks like you can get tape for it that is BPA/BPS free.
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
Brother P-touch uses thermal transfer where pigment is bonded to a substrate rather than a chemical phase change and is safe.

kragen 2y ago

Assuming BPA is what you're worried about (it's not "toxic" by the usual definitions but still something you may want to avoid) there isn't another mainstream option.

noja 2y ago
> it's not "toxic" by the usual definitions iirc if you have wet hands you absorb way more and it is toxic
- kragen 2y ago
  I can't find any evidence that anyone has ever died from bisphenol-A poisoning. Searching the medical literature finds no case studies of emergency-room visits or dying epoxy painters. Rat studies like https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=408a3aba1ee58b1a112d69b840391e15546fd701 https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&d... and https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236345183_Pathological_mechanisms_of_liver_injury_caused_by_oral_administration_of_bisphenol_A https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236345183_Pathologi... come up with acutely lethal oral doses around 2000–3000 milligrams per kilogram, by which measure it has about the same toxicity as table salt. It also has about the same pharmacokinetic half-life as table salt. The concerns (documented meticulously in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_Bisphenol_A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_Bisphenol_A) are largely about its possible effects as a xenoestrogen, and in particular its potential to cause obesity. There have also been concerns that chronic exposure might be carcinogenic, but so far those haven't panned out, so it's clear that if BPA exposure has an effect on cancer risk, either positive or negative, it's very small in magnitude. I don't think there's anything in the obesity concern, because the obesity pandemic seems to be associated with eating ultra-processed food rather than handling thermal-printer receipts or drinking out of Nalgene bottles. My best guess is that we'll find out that a few food additives that became popular 50 years ago upset the intestinal microbiome in a way that promotes obesity. In the meantime, though, it doesn't seem unreasonable to try to minimize your exposure to the stuff, even if ultimately it turns out to be harmless or only slightly harmful. But I wouldn't worry about it. Eating synthetic imitations of food, though, seems overwhelmingly likely to be bad for you.
  - desdenova 2y ago
    > My best guess is that we'll find out that a few food additives that became popular 50 years ago upset the intestinal microbiome in a way that promotes obesity. People can get drunk enough to fail a breath test, just from eating industrialized bread. There's so much chemical crap added to industrialized food we're not even aware of, unless we send each item to a lab for testing before we eat. But yeah, people sure must be getting fat because the McDonald's cashier gave them a receipt made of bad paper...

z2 2y ago

The most mainstream phenol free thermal paper out there is one made from a branded chemical "pergafast" which is supposedly based off of urea. This is increasingly the type used by big brand stores where the paper is advertised as BPA and BPS free. It appears safe in studies so far in terms of not being absorbed through the skin nor endocrine disrupting, but is also known to be highly toxic to aquatic life. There's another chemical related to vitamin c branded "Alpha Free" but it's harder to find. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0273230015000033 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02732...

account42 2y ago
Always remember that X-free or similar claims of not being toxic only means that the substances used instead of X are not yet known to be as toxic (or at just that the laws haven't caught up yet). It isn't guarantee that the new product is any safer than X and it might even be less safe. After all, the X in question was also seen as perfectly fine at some point.
- ComputerGuru 2y ago
  It's actually known that many of the alternatives companies have substituted for BPA are equally or more dangerous; they're just not blacklisted by the FDA so companies continue to use them with impunity. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/bpa-substitutes-safer-harmful https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/bpa-subst... https://archive.is/Bu6TE https://archive.is/Bu6TE