3 ms·

So now we know the lawyers on both sides. To recap, in the lawsuit post, someone said about the law firm WP Engine got: > Quinn Emanuel is one of the premier

by chx 2y ago

So now we know the lawyers on both sides. To recap, in the lawsuit post, someone said about the law firm WP Engine got: > Quinn Emanuel is one of the premier (and most expensive) litigation firms in the US. Partners in their litigation department run $2000/hour or more. Associates cost almost $1000/hour. And I noted the team is lead by Rachel Kassabian who was lead counsel for Google which in Perfect 10 v Amazon (originally it was against Google) resulted in thumbnail of copyright images in search results being fair use. Automattic chose Neal Katyal. His latest accomplishment was trying to defend Johnson & Johnson 's dicey "Texas Two-Step" and lost while billing $2,465 an hour. A hell lot of money will be spent on this case, that's for sure.

Aeolun 2y ago
Like, I know they bill by value delivered, but would a $500/hour lawyer really be that much worse?
- chx 2y ago
  My guess is WPEngine looked at the amount being asked from them (the lawsuit says "tens of millions of dollars" based on public posts indeed it seems above thirty million a year), divided it by the hourly rate of the best legal representation they thought they can get and decided it's cheaper. They wanted to take no risks. From the other side, after you are sued by Rachel Kassabian you really have no choice but get the best you can find and they thought a former (Acting) Solicitor General of the United States is it. As they say, that escalated quickly. There's not really a measure to say how much worse an $1000 or $500 per hour lawyer would be but no one is taking chances when you have this much money on the line.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    I mean, presumably you can look at a history of wins in similar cases instead of hourly rate or reputation?
    - chx 2y ago
      The case could go to trial but most cases are settled outside of court. You need to ensure the other side sees how much they have to lose should the case proceed to trial. In many ways this is a game of chicken.
    - ValentineC 2y ago
      This isn't like a football match where the variables are well-known. Lawsuits are decided on facts if they end up going to court, and every case is unique even if they follow similar fact patterns.
      - Aeolun 2y ago
        If you are saying it’s essentially random, why would you go with an expensive lawyer when you can hire basically anyone (competent). Is it just virtue signalling?
        chx 2y ago
        1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41741183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41741183 2. If it does go to court presentation will matter an awful lot. There are really technical topics involved which for us are easy to understand but not so much for a jury of peers. Translating well the facts for the jury involves experience, a very good team and talent.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Do you know the phenomenon of "Tournament wages"? Very prevalent in sports, it's why Ronaldo is worth a billion dollars. Because the lawyer's work is only valuable if they actually win, it's a very binary payout, and that drives up competition for "the best".
the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
Here is now Automattic is presenting this for an opposing view: > Neal has been adverse to Quinn Emanuel a number of times, and won every case.
- gamblor956 2y ago
  He's only faced Quinn Emmanuel twice... And one of those was a motion for summary judgment that QE's client was not expected to win.
bdndndndbve 2y ago
[flagged]
- ReptileMan 2y ago
  What has the world gone to - lawyers trying to defend the interests of their customers.
  - chx 2y ago
    Mullenweg tries hard -- actually too hard -- to portray himself as the good guy, it doesn't help when even posts striving hard to be neutral like https://gist.github.com/adrienne/aea9dd7ca19c8985157d9c42f7fc225d https://gist.github.com/adrienne/aea9dd7ca19c8985157d9c42f7f... has this update > Automattic releases a blog post in response to the lawsuit and announces that they have hired famous scumbag Neal Katyal
  - cultureswitch 2y ago
    Everyone is ethically responsible for their own actions. As a software developer I don't work for ad companies. Why would a lawyer accept any client regardless of ethical concerns unless said lawyer is a scumbag?

by chx 2y ago

Aeolun 2y ago

Like, I know they bill by value delivered, but would a $500/hour lawyer really be that much worse?

chx 2y ago
My guess is WPEngine looked at the amount being asked from them (the lawsuit says "tens of millions of dollars" based on public posts indeed it seems above thirty million a year), divided it by the hourly rate of the best legal representation they thought they can get and decided it's cheaper. They wanted to take no risks. From the other side, after you are sued by Rachel Kassabian you really have no choice but get the best you can find and they thought a former (Acting) Solicitor General of the United States is it. As they say, that escalated quickly. There's not really a measure to say how much worse an $1000 or $500 per hour lawyer would be but no one is taking chances when you have this much money on the line.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  I mean, presumably you can look at a history of wins in similar cases instead of hourly rate or reputation?
  - chx 2y ago
    The case could go to trial but most cases are settled outside of court. You need to ensure the other side sees how much they have to lose should the case proceed to trial. In many ways this is a game of chicken.
  - ValentineC 2y ago
    This isn't like a football match where the variables are well-known. Lawsuits are decided on facts if they end up going to court, and every case is unique even if they follow similar fact patterns.
    - Aeolun 2y ago
      If you are saying it’s essentially random, why would you go with an expensive lawyer when you can hire basically anyone (competent). Is it just virtue signalling?
      - chx 2y ago
        1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41741183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41741183 2. If it does go to court presentation will matter an awful lot. There are really technical topics involved which for us are easy to understand but not so much for a jury of peers. Translating well the facts for the jury involves experience, a very good team and talent.
pjc50 2y ago
Do you know the phenomenon of "Tournament wages"? Very prevalent in sports, it's why Ronaldo is worth a billion dollars. Because the lawyer's work is only valuable if they actually win, it's a very binary payout, and that drives up competition for "the best".

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago

Here is now Automattic is presenting this for an opposing view: > Neal has been adverse to Quinn Emanuel a number of times, and won every case.

gamblor956 2y ago
He's only faced Quinn Emmanuel twice... And one of those was a motion for summary judgment that QE's client was not expected to win.

bdndndndbve 2y ago

[flagged]

ReptileMan 2y ago
What has the world gone to - lawyers trying to defend the interests of their customers.
- chx 2y ago
  Mullenweg tries hard -- actually too hard -- to portray himself as the good guy, it doesn't help when even posts striving hard to be neutral like https://gist.github.com/adrienne/aea9dd7ca19c8985157d9c42f7fc225d https://gist.github.com/adrienne/aea9dd7ca19c8985157d9c42f7f... has this update > Automattic releases a blog post in response to the lawsuit and announces that they have hired famous scumbag Neal Katyal
- cultureswitch 2y ago
  Everyone is ethically responsible for their own actions. As a software developer I don't work for ad companies. Why would a lawyer accept any client regardless of ethical concerns unless said lawyer is a scumbag?