4 ms·

I know a similar non-coding founder who was using LLMs to create a full fledged TypeScript based SaaS product and regularly comes to me with high level architec

I know a similar non-coding founder who was using LLMs to create a full fledged TypeScript based SaaS product and regularly comes to me with high level architecture questions, but also doesn't know or care to figure out what HTTP methods are, variable names are a mishmash of whatever case the LLM decided to generate that day, and there are no tests whatsoever. It's held together by sheer force of manual QA. ...but. It does work.

Bloedcoins 2y ago
Yeah until you realize that a lot of small scale companies do the same thing with avg/bad developers for ages and ... It does work. IF you don't have a central security team like in big companies or the need for an audit, what you don't know is what you don't care for. Obviously until its too late but holy shit i have seen too much garbage just working for waaaay to long.
Kostchei 2y ago
This my technique- test the output, make sure it works (in the sense of outputs) the way I want. Test the input edge cases, move on. Occasionally when I can't get it to do what I want the llm suggests things like logging of output between functions etc- in which case they get added, but at the end I ask it to take out all the logging and make the code more concise. And sometimes it breaks in ways I can't fix - so rolling back or picking a new patch from a know break point becomes important. 16 hours for my first azure pipeline, auto-updates from code to prod, static app including setting up git, vscode, node, azure creds etc. I chose a stack I have never seen at work (mostly see AWS) and I am not a coder. Last code was Pascal in the 1980s. 3rd app took 4 hours. Built things I have wanted for 30 years. But yes- no code understanding, brute force.
- kortilla 2y ago
  This is how you end up with software full of vulnerabilities.
- mark_l_watson 2y ago
  re: “Built things I have wanted for 30 years.” +1 same for me. A few times a month I now build something I have wanted in the past but now I can afford the time to build. I have always prided myself at being pretty good at working with other human developers, and now I feel pretty good at using LLM based AI as a design and coding assistant, when it makes sense to not just do all the work myself.
- sitkack 2y ago
  Which is awesome, and if you wanted to understand the code, it would do an amazing job of tutoring you. I love seeing people being able to solve their own problems without the need for a professional programmer.
- jdiez17 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing your story! Reminds me a bit of Prometheus, stealing fire from the gods and giving it to humanity.
- komali2 2y ago
  The downside I've noticed is if I do this, I can't explain how I "solved the problem" during job interviews. I tried once, "I didn't, chatgpt solved it for me," and they laughed and I didn't get the job, so I stopped admitting that and said I just use chatgpt to quickly write up boilerplate for me.
  - Timber-6539 2y ago
    How was admitting this supposed to help you in an interview? Anyway you won't learn anything if you don't review and go deeper into the code you've written with ChatGPT.

Bloedcoins 2y ago

Yeah until you realize that a lot of small scale companies do the same thing with avg/bad developers for ages and ... It does work. IF you don't have a central security team like in big companies or the need for an audit, what you don't know is what you don't care for. Obviously until its too late but holy shit i have seen too much garbage just working for waaaay to long.

Kostchei 2y ago

This my technique- test the output, make sure it works (in the sense of outputs) the way I want. Test the input edge cases, move on. Occasionally when I can't get it to do what I want the llm suggests things like logging of output between functions etc- in which case they get added, but at the end I ask it to take out all the logging and make the code more concise. And sometimes it breaks in ways I can't fix - so rolling back or picking a new patch from a know break point becomes important. 16 hours for my first azure pipeline, auto-updates from code to prod, static app including setting up git, vscode, node, azure creds etc. I chose a stack I have never seen at work (mostly see AWS) and I am not a coder. Last code was Pascal in the 1980s. 3rd app took 4 hours. Built things I have wanted for 30 years. But yes- no code understanding, brute force.

kortilla 2y ago
This is how you end up with software full of vulnerabilities.
mark_l_watson 2y ago
re: “Built things I have wanted for 30 years.” +1 same for me. A few times a month I now build something I have wanted in the past but now I can afford the time to build. I have always prided myself at being pretty good at working with other human developers, and now I feel pretty good at using LLM based AI as a design and coding assistant, when it makes sense to not just do all the work myself.
sitkack 2y ago
Which is awesome, and if you wanted to understand the code, it would do an amazing job of tutoring you. I love seeing people being able to solve their own problems without the need for a professional programmer.
jdiez17 2y ago
Thanks for sharing your story! Reminds me a bit of Prometheus, stealing fire from the gods and giving it to humanity.
komali2 2y ago
The downside I've noticed is if I do this, I can't explain how I "solved the problem" during job interviews. I tried once, "I didn't, chatgpt solved it for me," and they laughed and I didn't get the job, so I stopped admitting that and said I just use chatgpt to quickly write up boilerplate for me.
- Timber-6539 2y ago
  How was admitting this supposed to help you in an interview? Anyway you won't learn anything if you don't review and go deeper into the code you've written with ChatGPT.