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I'm really happy to see ChatGPT doing this. The idea of a canvas made me really enjoy using Claude as I felt it to be the (so far) most "appropriate interface"

by scop 2y ago

I'm really happy to see ChatGPT doing this. The idea of a canvas made me really enjoy using Claude as I felt it to be the (so far) most "appropriate interface" to AI Chatbots as you are often doing two unique things in an AI chat: - holding in your mind a "thing" (i.e. some code) - talking about a "thing" (i.e. walking through the code) The same applies to non-code tasks as well. The ability to segregate the actual "meat" from the discussion is an excellent interface improvement for chatbots.

mmaunder 2y ago
Have you used it?
- scop 2y ago
  Why do you ask? I did use "4o with canvas" shortly after writing the above. To be clear, my original comment was not about the actual OpenAI implementation of a "canvas style chatbot", but rather that I have found the canvas-chat-UX to be the most effective way to interact with a chatbot. I am basing this on many hours with both ChatGPT (non-canvas until today) and Claude/Anthropic (who has had this feature). As of this writing, I prefer Claude both because of (a) the content of its output and (b) the canvas style, which allows my brain to easily parse what is the topic vs. discussion about the topic.
- breck 2y ago
  Not the op, but I just tried it. I agree with his point that this is a huge step up in having the discussion and then a separate canvas where the work takes place, and then iterations are done to the canvas. I LOVE the UX animation effect ChatGPT added to show the canvas being updated (even if it really is just for show). Here's my user test so you know I actually used it. My jaw begins to drop around minute 7: https://news.pub/?try=https://www.youtube.com/embed/jx9LVsryC50?si=P0ye-01HlgLJcJvy https://news.pub/?try=https://www.youtube.com/embed/jx9LVsry...
  - cj 2y ago
    That’s a great demo of Canvas. Slightly OT, but one thing I noticed further into the demo is how you were prompting. Rather than saying “embed my projects in my portfolio site” you told it to “add an iframe with the src being the project url next to each project”. Similarly, instead of “make the projects look nice”, you told it to “use css transforms to …” If I were a new developer starting today, it feels like I would hit a ceiling very quickly with tools like this. Basically it looks like a tool that can code for you if you are capable of writing the code yourself (given enough time). But questionably capable of writing code for you if you don’t know how to properly feed it leading information suggesting how to solve various problems/goals.
    - breck 2y ago
      > Basically it looks like a tool that can code for you if you are capable of writing the code yourself (given enough time). Yes, exactly. I use it the way I used to outsource tasks to junior developers. I describe what I need done and then I do code review. I know roughly where I want to go and how to get there, like having a sink full of dirty dishes and visualizing an empty sink with all the dishes cleaned and put away, and I just instruct it to do the tedious bits. But I try and watch how other people use it, and have a few other different styles that I employ sometimes as well.
      - cacois 2y ago
        This just raised a big red flag for me: > I use it the way I used to outsource tasks to junior developers. Is this not concerning to you, in a broader sense? These interactions were incredibly formative for junior devs (they were for me years ago) - its how to grew new senior devs. If we automate away the opportunity to train new senior devs, what happens to the future?
        breck 2y ago
        For junior devs, I now can outsource higher level things to be accomplished: I.e. https://github.com/breck7/wws/issues https://github.com/breck7/wws/issues

by scop 2y ago

mmaunder 2y ago

Have you used it?

scop 2y ago
Why do you ask? I did use "4o with canvas" shortly after writing the above. To be clear, my original comment was not about the actual OpenAI implementation of a "canvas style chatbot", but rather that I have found the canvas-chat-UX to be the most effective way to interact with a chatbot. I am basing this on many hours with both ChatGPT (non-canvas until today) and Claude/Anthropic (who has had this feature). As of this writing, I prefer Claude both because of (a) the content of its output and (b) the canvas style, which allows my brain to easily parse what is the topic vs. discussion about the topic.
breck 2y ago
Not the op, but I just tried it. I agree with his point that this is a huge step up in having the discussion and then a separate canvas where the work takes place, and then iterations are done to the canvas. I LOVE the UX animation effect ChatGPT added to show the canvas being updated (even if it really is just for show). Here's my user test so you know I actually used it. My jaw begins to drop around minute 7: https://news.pub/?try=https://www.youtube.com/embed/jx9LVsryC50?si=P0ye-01HlgLJcJvy https://news.pub/?try=https://www.youtube.com/embed/jx9LVsry...
- cj 2y ago
  That’s a great demo of Canvas. Slightly OT, but one thing I noticed further into the demo is how you were prompting. Rather than saying “embed my projects in my portfolio site” you told it to “add an iframe with the src being the project url next to each project”. Similarly, instead of “make the projects look nice”, you told it to “use css transforms to …” If I were a new developer starting today, it feels like I would hit a ceiling very quickly with tools like this. Basically it looks like a tool that can code for you if you are capable of writing the code yourself (given enough time). But questionably capable of writing code for you if you don’t know how to properly feed it leading information suggesting how to solve various problems/goals.
  - breck 2y ago
    > Basically it looks like a tool that can code for you if you are capable of writing the code yourself (given enough time). Yes, exactly. I use it the way I used to outsource tasks to junior developers. I describe what I need done and then I do code review. I know roughly where I want to go and how to get there, like having a sink full of dirty dishes and visualizing an empty sink with all the dishes cleaned and put away, and I just instruct it to do the tedious bits. But I try and watch how other people use it, and have a few other different styles that I employ sometimes as well.
    - cacois 2y ago
      This just raised a big red flag for me: > I use it the way I used to outsource tasks to junior developers. Is this not concerning to you, in a broader sense? These interactions were incredibly formative for junior devs (they were for me years ago) - its how to grew new senior devs. If we automate away the opportunity to train new senior devs, what happens to the future?
      - breck 2y ago
        For junior devs, I now can outsource higher level things to be accomplished: I.e. https://github.com/breck7/wws/issues https://github.com/breck7/wws/issues