12 ms·

Ask HN: What happens to ".io" TLD after UK gives back the Chagos Islands?

250 points by MrsPeaches 2y ago

UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98ynejg4l5o

N19PEDL2 2y ago
Perhaps Mauritius could just create the second-level domain .io.mu and move all .io websites there.
MrsPeaches 2y ago
Link to BBC article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98ynejg4l5o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98ynejg4l5o
deleted 2y ago
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- deleted 2y ago
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randompeach 2y ago
Let’s start my comment new /o\ My guess is that noting will happen for now. It’s mostly a decision that ICANN working groups have to figure out. But given the current size of the .io zone and that we already have a non existing cctld (.su for Soviet Unite), I’m pretty confident it will exist in the mid-term future.
- rafram 2y ago
  .su is administered by the Russian national registry, because Russia is de facto the Soviet Union’s successor state. In this case, though, would .io stay with the UK or come under Mauritian control? It’s not clear.
  - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
    > In this case, though, would .io stay with the UK or come under Mauritian control? It’s not clear. Before the retirement of .yu, Slovenia wanted to hold on to it, but it was not the successor state of Yugoslavia so they had to relinquish control and pass it to Serbia. So going by that logic, it would not stay in the UK (for long).
    - zarzavat 2y ago
      British Indian Ocean Territory isn’t a state, it’s just a territory with a military base on it, so there is no successor state. It’s like if Guantanamo Bay had its own ccTLD. The land will go to Mauritius, the legal entity of British Indian Ocean Territory will cease to exist (presumably).
      - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
        I recognize this, but that’s the closest equivalent.
      - toyg 2y ago
        > The land will go to Mauritius Mauritius could decide to incorporate it as "Mauritius Indian Ocean Territory", hence maintaining the CC. I expect .io owners will likely suggest something like that, while showing them how much money they could get from a 10-15% deal similar to what Tuvalu has for .tv. Nobody likes to burn money.
  - andyjohnson0 2y ago
    Like the other remnants of the British Empire, the British Indian Ocean Territory was never a part of the UK. It was just land that we (the UK) expropriated from Mauritius at independence. A just solution would be for Mauritius, as the (now) actual successor state, to control dot-io. IMO what will probably happen is that ICANN "promotes" the zone to being yet another top-level non-country code domain like .biz or .horse etc. Which is effectively what it is now. Edit to add: I don't think the .su precedent is applicable here. The Soviet Union was an internationally recognised state with a population, military, Montevideo Convention duties, seat at the UN, etc. The BIOT was and is nothing like that.
    - ifwinterco 2y ago
      This isn't quite true for Ascension or the Falkland Islands, they were both uninhabited when discovered and they're not part of any existing country
      - andyjohnson0 2y ago
        I'm not sure of the point you're making. Sure, there's a lot of evidence that they were "terra nullius" before being claimed for the British empire. But the Chagos archipelago was inhabited utill its population was compulsorily expelled in the mid twentieth century. I was surprised to discover that Ascension even has a ccTLD. I guess I assumed that the population was wholly military.
        toyg 2y ago
        > I was surprised to discover that Ascension even has a ccTLD That's because it was created by the same guy who created .io and .sh - British DNS "pioneer" Paul Kane, who clearly had a passion for finding remaining corners of the British Empire that could "claim" a bit of internet land (for his own profit).
    - chippiewill 2y ago
      Turning dot-io into a gTLD is certainly seems like the best course of action, but I think it's far from likely that ICANN will do that considering that there are no other two-letter gTLDs.
- dmurray 2y ago
  ccTLDs other than .su have been retired when the country they represented ceased to exist or got renamed. .zr, .tp, .cs (twice?) according to [0] I agree with you though, there doesn't seem to be a strong rule for this kind of thing and all interested parties would likely prefer for .io to continue to exist, so it will continue to exist, probably under Mauritius's ownership. [0] https://snapshot.internetx.com/en/these-tlds-do-not-exist-anymore/ https://snapshot.internetx.com/en/these-tlds-do-not-exist-an...
bubblesnort 2y ago
Why not post this as a URL?
- rafram 2y ago
  I did, but none of the articles about this news that are currently available mention the .io issue.
- Cheer2171 2y ago
  The article says nothing about .Io, it's mostly about Diego Garcia.
gjvc 2y ago
nothing
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  That is not possible. However it's possible that "not much" will happen, but the .io domain would have to move to the control of another country with the current rules in place. For historic precedent on this you can look at the .yu domain which was forcefully transferred to Serbia (more precisely FR Yugoslavia) when Slovenia did not want to give it up. I don't think it's very likely that it will be retired given the state of .su.
cryptoboy2283 2y ago
> The US-UK base will remain on Diego Garcia – a key factor enabling the deal to go forward at a time of growing geopolitical rivalries in the region between Western countries, India, and China. So nothing really changes lol. Just a couple of paperwork remarks
- dmurray 2y ago
  Per TFA, Mauritius will be able to resettle the other islands, so this isn't just a paperwork change.
- helsinkiandrew 2y ago
  Mauritius will get 'financial support' for 'leasing' the military base and resettlement can happen on the other islands
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ifwinterco 2y ago
  There's no way the US would ever give up Diego Garcia without an actual fight, it's way too useful
- Symbiote 2y ago
  I think this will depend on the treaty. If Diego Garcia remains as UK-sovereign land, then since different laws (etc) apply it's likely ISO would keep the IO code for it. If Mauritius keeps the islands they gain with a different status (tax, immigration and so on) compared to the rest of Mauritius, then a code might be needed for that — but Mauritius probably won't be keen on "IO". If the whole lot becomes 'ordinary Mauritius' then the code is no longer needed and will be removed.
- sofixa 2y ago
  > So nothing really changes lol A crime against humanity begins to get fixed. Chagosians will finally be allowed to go back to their homes. Mauritius will get paid a rent for the lease of the Diego Garcia base from the US. Also, Mauritius is a signatory of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, and thus no nuclear weapons are allowed within its territory. TBD if there will be a special agreement allowing special sovereignty for the US/UK, which might allow the US to station nuclear weapons there (which it probably currently does). So there's definitely change. The UK and US finally accepted their crime, which is extremely rare. Genuinely, are there other examples of them suffering consequences (even if their consequences are a return to the status quo, ish), for other of their violations of international law and/or crimes against humanity? None come to mind.
aimazon 2y ago
The .io registry is operated by Identity Digital which is a consolidation of a bunch of different registries from the last decade[1]. Identity Digital own (and sometimes just operate) many different TLDs and ccTLDs: most likely, the registrar will retain the right to operate the ccTLD and start paying license fees for each .io to Mauritius. The .tv ccTLD is the most famous example of this, as something like 15% of Tuvalu's GDP is from licensing of the .tv ccTLD. [1] ICB acquired by Afilias, Afilias acquired by Donuts, Donuts rebranded to Identity Digital.
- delfinom 2y ago
  The ccTLD for Mauritius is .mu. The e British Indian Ocean territories stop existing once the UK releases its claims to the territories so there goes the country code of "io"
  - aimazon 2y ago
    The country codes used for ccTLDs are arbitrary, I thought: they're roughly consistent with ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes but not exactly. Are there precedents to suggest a country can only have one ccTLD?
    - drpossum 2y ago
      No, there's lots of counterexamples that are typically designed around subregions or territories (I understand there are nuances here, but this sets the general spirit of when this happens). The UK has .uk and .gb, US has .us and had .um , Austrailia has .au, .cx (Christmas Island), .cc (Cocos/Keeling Islands)
      - arethuza 2y ago
        Had to look .gb up! With the demise of X.400 e-mail and IANA's general aim of one TLD per country, use of .gb declined; the domain remains in existence, but it is not currently open to new domain registrations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.gb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.gb NB I was curious as to whether .gb would be strict and exclude NI - who get to use .ie if they want...
amiga386 2y ago
Nothing, because .io was operated by some wheeler-dealer without the authority of the UK. Apparently he just dumped money into the bank accounts of the various overseas territories he was selling the domain names for and they were OK with it? He's since sold it on and now a hedge fund owns it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io Officially, the British Indian Ocean Territories will cease to exist, therefore so would the ISO 2-letter country code. However, ccTLDs have outlasted countries before, notably ".su" for the no longer existing USSR. I suspect that IANA would prioritise not breaking millions of domain names over trying to police ccTLDs. Google's view on the matter is that .io is already effectively a gTLD rather than a ccTLD, like with .nu, .to, .tv, as most of the registrants run websites with a global audience or at least an audience other than the island nations whose ccTLDs they are.
- tephra 2y ago
  I have some insight into this domain (pun duly intended), I work for a foundation managing two ccTLDs. Once the ccTLD has been delegated to an entity it is very hard to get that back without the consent of all parties. Meaning unless the entity that now holds the delegation to manage the ccTLD agrees to sell it or give it back they generally won't lose it.
- bigfatkitten 2y ago
  .su survives only because Russian users kicked up a massive stink about keeping it. About 20 years ago, ICANN was quite determined to kill it off.
- drpossum 2y ago
  As someone with an io domain, I really appreciate this post. I've had general fears that political decisions would be made that would make trouble for me on top of the standard business decisions to take as much as they can from me. Now it seems likely I will only have to worry about the hedge funds!
  - BoredPositron 2y ago
    [flagged]
lolinder 2y ago
The .su ccTLD survived the collapse of the Soviet Union [0], with Russia maintaining it. It sounds like ICANN has tried to get rid of it but had too much opposition. On the other hand, .yu expired after being managed by Serbia for a few years [1]. If I had to guess I'd say .io will likely follow .su, not .yu, because there's enough lobbying power behind the TLD to at least keep resolving the existing domains. But from what I can see the default course for a ccTLD is to get phased out when its corresponding country disappears. Edit: gnfargbl found the actual written policy [3]. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.yu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.yu [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41730559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41730559
- preisschild 2y ago
  .su hopefully dies in the future. It is often used for cybercrime, neo-nazi websites and the russian controlled puppet government of certain russian controlled Ukrainian territories.
  - hakfoo 2y ago
    I was always disappointed it didn't acquire a "regional" sort of appeal for businesses serving the CIS/former Soviet states, sort of like when they started to sell .eu domains towards an audience that wanted to imply "we're not just a .de or .fr company". Curious what the trade aspects are like-- I'd expect there's a lot of industrial commonality and shared inherited legal norms, so if you're already doing business in one former Soviet republic, is it comparatively easy to expand to others?
  - Avamander 2y ago
    It's actually kinda crazy that it has been kept. I personally think resolvers should not resolve that zone at all.
    - cduzz 2y ago
      The crazy thing is that there's a list of actually agreed-upon root name servers and they maintain a uniform namespace for the internet. I suspect the above statement isn't actually a true statement across the world, but at least for today the list of roots isn't generically ideological in the same way a broad set of "obvious truths" is now ideological.
sureIy 2y ago
In an ideal world, orphan TLDs should be kept alive until a new country with that code is born. New registrations should be closed though.
drpossum 2y ago
Is there anything that can be done to petition ICANN or some other authority to help preserve this?
iambateman 2y ago
The fact that there is an answer other than “every TLD will definitely exist until the death of the internet itself” is wild to me.
- cduzz 2y ago
  The "internet" has died several times already. I doubt I could send email to anyone on bitnet or via a UUCP bang path, for example. This iteration of the internet is pretty big; it may not die (where you live) but it will likely continue fragmenting into a loosely coupled set of affiliated networks with semi-realtime gateways between them (see also UUCP / bitnet).
  - cesarb 2y ago
    > This iteration of the internet is pretty big; it may not die (where you live) but it will likely continue fragmenting into a loosely coupled set of affiliated networks [...] Isn't the Internet already a "loosely coupled set of affiliated networks", with each AS being a separate network?
    - cduzz 2y ago
      Yes -- to some degree. And "AS" could mean "BGP AS" or it could mean "country or alliance of countries" -- the internet as seen in the west vs iran are likely very different things. Maybe skynet uses one set of roots and thenet uses a different set of roots and freenet has taken the IPs of the roots and sends you to their dns heirarchy and they also mandate that you have their set of CAs. But as of right now people don't carry different phones to communicate on different internets (though they do have different chat / voice communication applications / networks). UUCP / bitnet were (are?) store-and-forward gateway mechanisms. "If you want to send email to that google address you have to send it as friend@gmail.com@@freenet_audit and it'll be forwarded if the filters approve." My point is that there have been a variety of different internets in the past; this one got the name "the internet" but there's no reason it won't fragment (more) into a morass semi-incompatible fragments.
hermannj314 2y ago
I feel like some of you are going to run for politics in a few decades and owning a .io domain with no residence or operation in that part of the world, while technically not wrong at the time, will be the seen with the same disdain as blackface, cultural appropriation, or wearing a Nazi uniform to a Halloween party. It seems in poor taste to use your privileges to perform digital colonization, revise the intention that .IO was never about Indian Ocean territory, and justify it all simply because it was a convenient way at the time for you to get attention and make money.
- camjw 2y ago
  "That part of the world" - christ mate its just a military base
  - Dibby053 2y ago
    And blackface is just a costume. I think there's some necessary context to understand GP's comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Chagossians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Chagossians
    - wormlord 2y ago
      There is a good "Behind the Bastards" episode about this event. Also the Chagossian man in the Wikipedia article is incredibly jacked. I am assuming that physique is just from physical labor but holy cow.
      - 15155 2y ago
        > Also the Chagossian man in the Wikipedia article is incredibly jacked. I am assuming that physique is just from physical labor but holy cow. He's probably 5'4" - 5'8" (and standing alone) which helps significantly.
        wormlord 2y ago
        Even if he is small, his muscle definition is very impressive. It's pretty cool that you can have that physique from regular physical labor.
gpvos 2y ago
The .io TLD will disappear, but given its huge use I expect ICANN to allow an especially long transition period. Since it's two letters long, it cannot be retained as a generic TLD, as it's in the country TLD namespace and might be reused as such for a different country in the (very far) future. With only 26*26 = 676 possibilities and currently around 200 countries you just can't keep old codes around without an extremely good reason.
- teaganga 2y ago
  https://checkfordomains.com/blog/could-io-become-generic-top-level-domain-exploring-possible-exceptions-icann/ https://checkfordomains.com/blog/could-io-become-generic-top...
paxys 2y ago
Do people really think ICANN will make a large number of popular startups/websites/apps unusable overnight based on a technicality? That's not how the world works. .io has a globally recognized registrar and they will continue doing business as they do today.
- lolinder 2y ago
  I don't think they'd do it overnight, but I can absolutely see them locking future registrations and setting an expiration date. They might get enough complaints that they have to keep extending that date indefinitely. And they might not choose to do it at all in this case. But they've been very clear over the years what ccTLDs are supposed to be for, and their first instinct will be to preserve the integrity of the naming system as designed, not to preserve startups who bet on them ignoring their own rules.
  - al_borland 2y ago
    If they do move forward with this, I think going forward companies will be much more cautious before getting a vanity domain.
- sofixa 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - matthewmorgan 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - sofixa 2y ago
      Feel free to point out anything I got wrong.
  - toyg 2y ago
    It could well morph into "MIOT", maintaining the CC for the benefit of Mauritian citizens. After all, western interests have already extracted benefits from their land for decades, it would be only just that they get to keep some of those benefits forever. Indians didn't demolish all buildings and railroads built for British benefit, they just repurposed for their own; the same should probably happen here.
gnfargbl 2y ago
ICANN actually has a relevant written policy at https://www.iana.org/help/cctld-retirement https://www.iana.org/help/cctld-retirement. The short answer is that -- if ICANN follows the policy -- then following the removal of IO from ISO-3166-2, the ccTLD has five years to initiate an orderly shutdown. The ccTLD manager may request that this be extended to a maximum of ten years, but to do so they need to have reasons beyond a general desire to retain the existing ccTLD.
- mr_toad 2y ago
  Given ICANNs history they’ll probably want to do some “fact finding” in Mauritius, after which they’ll make a decision that most benefits their back pocket.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Thank you for digging into this and getting an actual answer!
  - gnfargbl 2y ago
    You're welcome. I think people here are often surprised that the internet registries actually spend time thinking about this stuff, and developing policy for it. But they do, and the results are easily accessible -- the link I provided was the top search engine hit for "icann cctld retirement policy".
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- mherrmann 2y ago
  Does this mean that all .io domains will cease to exist?
  - sofixa 2y ago
    .su still exists, so there's precedent for keeping a "legacy" ccTLD of a non-existing entity.
sairamkunala 2y ago
I recall there was an outage 6 years ago. And many companies migrated to dot com over night. https://hackernoon.com/stop-using-io-domain-names-for-production-traffic-b6aa17eeac20 https://hackernoon.com/stop-using-io-domain-names-for-produc...
chx 2y ago
draw.io has moved from the .io domain in 2020 . Their arguments were precise and persuasive. After that I do not know why would anyone stay on there. https://www.drawio.com/blog/move-diagrams-net https://www.drawio.com/blog/move-diagrams-net
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  Their lead argument is "because colonialism", which is not a persuasive argument unless you have an ideological axe to grind. In general, people don't give a shit about upholding historical grievances or whatever, they simply want to get things done.
  - chx 2y ago
    I will not be baited into discussing what people care and not care about but I will note there was a mass migration from the "master" branch to "main" branch. Food for thought. To be more on topic, to quote: there was a security issue with the .io domain. In 2017, a researcher managed to take control of four of the seven authoritative name servers for the .io domain. We accept that mistakes can happen, strong processes limit the chances of them happening, but they still can. However, the domain administrator made no attempt, at any time, to communicate with anyone about the issue.
- alibarber 2y ago
  Perhaps I'm just too cynical but I always see the movement from some more 'obscure' domain name to a 'household' .com / .net as a graduation of sorts. Given that all the dictionary word .com/.nets got bought out a long long time before many of these startups, started up, a lot of money needs to change hands. I don't know anything about the history of these particular TLDs, but this page really comes off as 'hey we now have a load of money and can afford to buy the .net we always wanted but it's actually it's for a good reason and we're better than those other hip new companies' - kinda like 'my expensive personalised number plate is actually raising awareness for world peace - your standard one means you don't care' or something. Again, I'm just a complete outsider here, but that's my initial reaction. Maybe I'm just jaded.
digitalsurgeonz 2y ago
good riddance.
theandrewbailey 2y ago
This is a risk of using a ccTLD (of a country in which you don't reside) in your cute domain.
ed_blackburn 2y ago
Well, my employers have a Mauritian domain. I shall have to volunteer to scope out the Mauritian tech scene, which, to be fair, I've heard positive things about before. So now I will have to do my research justice and attend in person.
- gnfargbl 2y ago
  This is an excellent plan and will doubtless pay long-term dividends for your employer who would be wise to fully fund your research. However do be aware that the μTech scene is largely a closed shop, and you shouldn't expect to make serious connections on your first visit. It's likely that you'll need to be there for at least a week every six months, perhaps for two or three years.
  - toyg 2y ago
    I think it warrants establishing a permanent base of operations, running continuous training sessions for the benefit of the whole company. Obviously I'm talking about on-site training, which is much more beneficial than remote courses.
NikkiA 2y ago
The UK will be retaining a 99 year lease on Diego Garcia, so I imagine .io can still be referring to that for another hundred years or so; in a similar way to how .hk still exists, and existed at all.
dboreham 2y ago
Without reading the article: do not ever depend on a dodgy ccTLD for your brand recognition or other important thing.
- mr_toad 2y ago
  As if Verisign has never done anything shady. The whole industry is full of shady operators, from top to bottom.
craigmj 2y ago
Like the Elgin Marbles, the UK won't return the lot.
dang 2y ago
Related ongoing thread: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41729325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41729325 - Oct 2024 (33 comments)
saaaaaam 2y ago
I’m accidentally cross posting this because I left this thread to find the link then searched on HN and posted it to the wrong one. Worth reading Kevin Murphy’s piece here: https://domainincite.com/30395-future-of-io-domains-uncertain-as-uk-hands-over-chagos-islands https://domainincite.com/30395-future-of-io-domains-uncertai...
glub103011 2y ago
[dead]

250 points by MrsPeaches 2y ago

UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98ynejg4l5o

N19PEDL2 2y ago

Perhaps Mauritius could just create the second-level domain .io.mu and move all .io websites there.

MrsPeaches 2y ago

Link to BBC article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98ynejg4l5o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98ynejg4l5o

deleted 2y ago

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deleted 2y ago
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randompeach 2y ago

Let’s start my comment new /o\ My guess is that noting will happen for now. It’s mostly a decision that ICANN working groups have to figure out. But given the current size of the .io zone and that we already have a non existing cctld (.su for Soviet Unite), I’m pretty confident it will exist in the mid-term future.

rafram 2y ago
.su is administered by the Russian national registry, because Russia is de facto the Soviet Union’s successor state. In this case, though, would .io stay with the UK or come under Mauritian control? It’s not clear.
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  > In this case, though, would .io stay with the UK or come under Mauritian control? It’s not clear. Before the retirement of .yu, Slovenia wanted to hold on to it, but it was not the successor state of Yugoslavia so they had to relinquish control and pass it to Serbia. So going by that logic, it would not stay in the UK (for long).
  - zarzavat 2y ago
    British Indian Ocean Territory isn’t a state, it’s just a territory with a military base on it, so there is no successor state. It’s like if Guantanamo Bay had its own ccTLD. The land will go to Mauritius, the legal entity of British Indian Ocean Territory will cease to exist (presumably).
    - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
      I recognize this, but that’s the closest equivalent.
    - toyg 2y ago
      > The land will go to Mauritius Mauritius could decide to incorporate it as "Mauritius Indian Ocean Territory", hence maintaining the CC. I expect .io owners will likely suggest something like that, while showing them how much money they could get from a 10-15% deal similar to what Tuvalu has for .tv. Nobody likes to burn money.
- andyjohnson0 2y ago
  Like the other remnants of the British Empire, the British Indian Ocean Territory was never a part of the UK. It was just land that we (the UK) expropriated from Mauritius at independence. A just solution would be for Mauritius, as the (now) actual successor state, to control dot-io. IMO what will probably happen is that ICANN "promotes" the zone to being yet another top-level non-country code domain like .biz or .horse etc. Which is effectively what it is now. Edit to add: I don't think the .su precedent is applicable here. The Soviet Union was an internationally recognised state with a population, military, Montevideo Convention duties, seat at the UN, etc. The BIOT was and is nothing like that.
  - ifwinterco 2y ago
    This isn't quite true for Ascension or the Falkland Islands, they were both uninhabited when discovered and they're not part of any existing country
    - andyjohnson0 2y ago
      I'm not sure of the point you're making. Sure, there's a lot of evidence that they were "terra nullius" before being claimed for the British empire. But the Chagos archipelago was inhabited utill its population was compulsorily expelled in the mid twentieth century. I was surprised to discover that Ascension even has a ccTLD. I guess I assumed that the population was wholly military.
      - toyg 2y ago
        > I was surprised to discover that Ascension even has a ccTLD That's because it was created by the same guy who created .io and .sh - British DNS "pioneer" Paul Kane, who clearly had a passion for finding remaining corners of the British Empire that could "claim" a bit of internet land (for his own profit).
  - chippiewill 2y ago
    Turning dot-io into a gTLD is certainly seems like the best course of action, but I think it's far from likely that ICANN will do that considering that there are no other two-letter gTLDs.
dmurray 2y ago
ccTLDs other than .su have been retired when the country they represented ceased to exist or got renamed. .zr, .tp, .cs (twice?) according to [0] I agree with you though, there doesn't seem to be a strong rule for this kind of thing and all interested parties would likely prefer for .io to continue to exist, so it will continue to exist, probably under Mauritius's ownership. [0] https://snapshot.internetx.com/en/these-tlds-do-not-exist-anymore/ https://snapshot.internetx.com/en/these-tlds-do-not-exist-an...

bubblesnort 2y ago

Why not post this as a URL?

rafram 2y ago
I did, but none of the articles about this news that are currently available mention the .io issue.
Cheer2171 2y ago
The article says nothing about .Io, it's mostly about Diego Garcia.

gjvc 2y ago

nothing

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
That is not possible. However it's possible that "not much" will happen, but the .io domain would have to move to the control of another country with the current rules in place. For historic precedent on this you can look at the .yu domain which was forcefully transferred to Serbia (more precisely FR Yugoslavia) when Slovenia did not want to give it up. I don't think it's very likely that it will be retired given the state of .su.

cryptoboy2283 2y ago

> The US-UK base will remain on Diego Garcia – a key factor enabling the deal to go forward at a time of growing geopolitical rivalries in the region between Western countries, India, and China. So nothing really changes lol. Just a couple of paperwork remarks

dmurray 2y ago
Per TFA, Mauritius will be able to resettle the other islands, so this isn't just a paperwork change.
helsinkiandrew 2y ago
Mauritius will get 'financial support' for 'leasing' the military base and resettlement can happen on the other islands
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ifwinterco 2y ago
There's no way the US would ever give up Diego Garcia without an actual fight, it's way too useful
Symbiote 2y ago
I think this will depend on the treaty. If Diego Garcia remains as UK-sovereign land, then since different laws (etc) apply it's likely ISO would keep the IO code for it. If Mauritius keeps the islands they gain with a different status (tax, immigration and so on) compared to the rest of Mauritius, then a code might be needed for that — but Mauritius probably won't be keen on "IO". If the whole lot becomes 'ordinary Mauritius' then the code is no longer needed and will be removed.
sofixa 2y ago
> So nothing really changes lol A crime against humanity begins to get fixed. Chagosians will finally be allowed to go back to their homes. Mauritius will get paid a rent for the lease of the Diego Garcia base from the US. Also, Mauritius is a signatory of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, and thus no nuclear weapons are allowed within its territory. TBD if there will be a special agreement allowing special sovereignty for the US/UK, which might allow the US to station nuclear weapons there (which it probably currently does). So there's definitely change. The UK and US finally accepted their crime, which is extremely rare. Genuinely, are there other examples of them suffering consequences (even if their consequences are a return to the status quo, ish), for other of their violations of international law and/or crimes against humanity? None come to mind.

aimazon 2y ago

The .io registry is operated by Identity Digital which is a consolidation of a bunch of different registries from the last decade[1]. Identity Digital own (and sometimes just operate) many different TLDs and ccTLDs: most likely, the registrar will retain the right to operate the ccTLD and start paying license fees for each .io to Mauritius. The .tv ccTLD is the most famous example of this, as something like 15% of Tuvalu's GDP is from licensing of the .tv ccTLD. [1] ICB acquired by Afilias, Afilias acquired by Donuts, Donuts rebranded to Identity Digital.

delfinom 2y ago
The ccTLD for Mauritius is .mu. The e British Indian Ocean territories stop existing once the UK releases its claims to the territories so there goes the country code of "io"
- aimazon 2y ago
  The country codes used for ccTLDs are arbitrary, I thought: they're roughly consistent with ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes but not exactly. Are there precedents to suggest a country can only have one ccTLD?
  - drpossum 2y ago
    No, there's lots of counterexamples that are typically designed around subregions or territories (I understand there are nuances here, but this sets the general spirit of when this happens). The UK has .uk and .gb, US has .us and had .um , Austrailia has .au, .cx (Christmas Island), .cc (Cocos/Keeling Islands)
    - arethuza 2y ago
      Had to look .gb up! With the demise of X.400 e-mail and IANA's general aim of one TLD per country, use of .gb declined; the domain remains in existence, but it is not currently open to new domain registrations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.gb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.gb NB I was curious as to whether .gb would be strict and exclude NI - who get to use .ie if they want...

amiga386 2y ago

Nothing, because .io was operated by some wheeler-dealer without the authority of the UK. Apparently he just dumped money into the bank accounts of the various overseas territories he was selling the domain names for and they were OK with it? He's since sold it on and now a hedge fund owns it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io Officially, the British Indian Ocean Territories will cease to exist, therefore so would the ISO 2-letter country code. However, ccTLDs have outlasted countries before, notably ".su" for the no longer existing USSR. I suspect that IANA would prioritise not breaking millions of domain names over trying to police ccTLDs. Google's view on the matter is that .io is already effectively a gTLD rather than a ccTLD, like with .nu, .to, .tv, as most of the registrants run websites with a global audience or at least an audience other than the island nations whose ccTLDs they are.

tephra 2y ago
I have some insight into this domain (pun duly intended), I work for a foundation managing two ccTLDs. Once the ccTLD has been delegated to an entity it is very hard to get that back without the consent of all parties. Meaning unless the entity that now holds the delegation to manage the ccTLD agrees to sell it or give it back they generally won't lose it.
bigfatkitten 2y ago
.su survives only because Russian users kicked up a massive stink about keeping it. About 20 years ago, ICANN was quite determined to kill it off.
drpossum 2y ago
As someone with an io domain, I really appreciate this post. I've had general fears that political decisions would be made that would make trouble for me on top of the standard business decisions to take as much as they can from me. Now it seems likely I will only have to worry about the hedge funds!
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  [flagged]

lolinder 2y ago

The .su ccTLD survived the collapse of the Soviet Union [0], with Russia maintaining it. It sounds like ICANN has tried to get rid of it but had too much opposition. On the other hand, .yu expired after being managed by Serbia for a few years [1]. If I had to guess I'd say .io will likely follow .su, not .yu, because there's enough lobbying power behind the TLD to at least keep resolving the existing domains. But from what I can see the default course for a ccTLD is to get phased out when its corresponding country disappears. Edit: gnfargbl found the actual written policy [3]. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.yu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.yu [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41730559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41730559

preisschild 2y ago
.su hopefully dies in the future. It is often used for cybercrime, neo-nazi websites and the russian controlled puppet government of certain russian controlled Ukrainian territories.
- hakfoo 2y ago
  I was always disappointed it didn't acquire a "regional" sort of appeal for businesses serving the CIS/former Soviet states, sort of like when they started to sell .eu domains towards an audience that wanted to imply "we're not just a .de or .fr company". Curious what the trade aspects are like-- I'd expect there's a lot of industrial commonality and shared inherited legal norms, so if you're already doing business in one former Soviet republic, is it comparatively easy to expand to others?
- Avamander 2y ago
  It's actually kinda crazy that it has been kept. I personally think resolvers should not resolve that zone at all.
  - cduzz 2y ago
    The crazy thing is that there's a list of actually agreed-upon root name servers and they maintain a uniform namespace for the internet. I suspect the above statement isn't actually a true statement across the world, but at least for today the list of roots isn't generically ideological in the same way a broad set of "obvious truths" is now ideological.

sureIy 2y ago

In an ideal world, orphan TLDs should be kept alive until a new country with that code is born. New registrations should be closed though.

drpossum 2y ago

Is there anything that can be done to petition ICANN or some other authority to help preserve this?

iambateman 2y ago

The fact that there is an answer other than “every TLD will definitely exist until the death of the internet itself” is wild to me.

cduzz 2y ago
The "internet" has died several times already. I doubt I could send email to anyone on bitnet or via a UUCP bang path, for example. This iteration of the internet is pretty big; it may not die (where you live) but it will likely continue fragmenting into a loosely coupled set of affiliated networks with semi-realtime gateways between them (see also UUCP / bitnet).
- cesarb 2y ago
  > This iteration of the internet is pretty big; it may not die (where you live) but it will likely continue fragmenting into a loosely coupled set of affiliated networks [...] Isn't the Internet already a "loosely coupled set of affiliated networks", with each AS being a separate network?
  - cduzz 2y ago
    Yes -- to some degree. And "AS" could mean "BGP AS" or it could mean "country or alliance of countries" -- the internet as seen in the west vs iran are likely very different things. Maybe skynet uses one set of roots and thenet uses a different set of roots and freenet has taken the IPs of the roots and sends you to their dns heirarchy and they also mandate that you have their set of CAs. But as of right now people don't carry different phones to communicate on different internets (though they do have different chat / voice communication applications / networks). UUCP / bitnet were (are?) store-and-forward gateway mechanisms. "If you want to send email to that google address you have to send it as friend@gmail.com@@freenet_audit and it'll be forwarded if the filters approve." My point is that there have been a variety of different internets in the past; this one got the name "the internet" but there's no reason it won't fragment (more) into a morass semi-incompatible fragments.

hermannj314 2y ago

I feel like some of you are going to run for politics in a few decades and owning a .io domain with no residence or operation in that part of the world, while technically not wrong at the time, will be the seen with the same disdain as blackface, cultural appropriation, or wearing a Nazi uniform to a Halloween party. It seems in poor taste to use your privileges to perform digital colonization, revise the intention that .IO was never about Indian Ocean territory, and justify it all simply because it was a convenient way at the time for you to get attention and make money.

camjw 2y ago
"That part of the world" - christ mate its just a military base
- Dibby053 2y ago
  And blackface is just a costume. I think there's some necessary context to understand GP's comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Chagossians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Chagossians
  - wormlord 2y ago
    There is a good "Behind the Bastards" episode about this event. Also the Chagossian man in the Wikipedia article is incredibly jacked. I am assuming that physique is just from physical labor but holy cow.
    - 15155 2y ago
      > Also the Chagossian man in the Wikipedia article is incredibly jacked. I am assuming that physique is just from physical labor but holy cow. He's probably 5'4" - 5'8" (and standing alone) which helps significantly.
      - wormlord 2y ago
        Even if he is small, his muscle definition is very impressive. It's pretty cool that you can have that physique from regular physical labor.

gpvos 2y ago

The .io TLD will disappear, but given its huge use I expect ICANN to allow an especially long transition period. Since it's two letters long, it cannot be retained as a generic TLD, as it's in the country TLD namespace and might be reused as such for a different country in the (very far) future. With only 26*26 = 676 possibilities and currently around 200 countries you just can't keep old codes around without an extremely good reason.

teaganga 2y ago
https://checkfordomains.com/blog/could-io-become-generic-top-level-domain-exploring-possible-exceptions-icann/ https://checkfordomains.com/blog/could-io-become-generic-top...

paxys 2y ago

Do people really think ICANN will make a large number of popular startups/websites/apps unusable overnight based on a technicality? That's not how the world works. .io has a globally recognized registrar and they will continue doing business as they do today.

lolinder 2y ago
I don't think they'd do it overnight, but I can absolutely see them locking future registrations and setting an expiration date. They might get enough complaints that they have to keep extending that date indefinitely. And they might not choose to do it at all in this case. But they've been very clear over the years what ccTLDs are supposed to be for, and their first instinct will be to preserve the integrity of the naming system as designed, not to preserve startups who bet on them ignoring their own rules.
- al_borland 2y ago
  If they do move forward with this, I think going forward companies will be much more cautious before getting a vanity domain.
sofixa 2y ago
[flagged]
- matthewmorgan 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - sofixa 2y ago
    Feel free to point out anything I got wrong.
- toyg 2y ago
  It could well morph into "MIOT", maintaining the CC for the benefit of Mauritian citizens. After all, western interests have already extracted benefits from their land for decades, it would be only just that they get to keep some of those benefits forever. Indians didn't demolish all buildings and railroads built for British benefit, they just repurposed for their own; the same should probably happen here.

gnfargbl 2y ago

ICANN actually has a relevant written policy at https://www.iana.org/help/cctld-retirement https://www.iana.org/help/cctld-retirement. The short answer is that -- if ICANN follows the policy -- then following the removal of IO from ISO-3166-2, the ccTLD has five years to initiate an orderly shutdown. The ccTLD manager may request that this be extended to a maximum of ten years, but to do so they need to have reasons beyond a general desire to retain the existing ccTLD.

mr_toad 2y ago
Given ICANNs history they’ll probably want to do some “fact finding” in Mauritius, after which they’ll make a decision that most benefits their back pocket.
lolinder 2y ago
Thank you for digging into this and getting an actual answer!
- gnfargbl 2y ago
  You're welcome. I think people here are often surprised that the internet registries actually spend time thinking about this stuff, and developing policy for it. But they do, and the results are easily accessible -- the link I provided was the top search engine hit for "icann cctld retirement policy".
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
mherrmann 2y ago
Does this mean that all .io domains will cease to exist?
- sofixa 2y ago
  .su still exists, so there's precedent for keeping a "legacy" ccTLD of a non-existing entity.

sairamkunala 2y ago

I recall there was an outage 6 years ago. And many companies migrated to dot com over night. https://hackernoon.com/stop-using-io-domain-names-for-production-traffic-b6aa17eeac20 https://hackernoon.com/stop-using-io-domain-names-for-produc...

chx 2y ago

draw.io has moved from the .io domain in 2020 . Their arguments were precise and persuasive. After that I do not know why would anyone stay on there. https://www.drawio.com/blog/move-diagrams-net https://www.drawio.com/blog/move-diagrams-net

bigstrat2003 2y ago
Their lead argument is "because colonialism", which is not a persuasive argument unless you have an ideological axe to grind. In general, people don't give a shit about upholding historical grievances or whatever, they simply want to get things done.
- chx 2y ago
  I will not be baited into discussing what people care and not care about but I will note there was a mass migration from the "master" branch to "main" branch. Food for thought. To be more on topic, to quote: there was a security issue with the .io domain. In 2017, a researcher managed to take control of four of the seven authoritative name servers for the .io domain. We accept that mistakes can happen, strong processes limit the chances of them happening, but they still can. However, the domain administrator made no attempt, at any time, to communicate with anyone about the issue.
alibarber 2y ago
Perhaps I'm just too cynical but I always see the movement from some more 'obscure' domain name to a 'household' .com / .net as a graduation of sorts. Given that all the dictionary word .com/.nets got bought out a long long time before many of these startups, started up, a lot of money needs to change hands. I don't know anything about the history of these particular TLDs, but this page really comes off as 'hey we now have a load of money and can afford to buy the .net we always wanted but it's actually it's for a good reason and we're better than those other hip new companies' - kinda like 'my expensive personalised number plate is actually raising awareness for world peace - your standard one means you don't care' or something. Again, I'm just a complete outsider here, but that's my initial reaction. Maybe I'm just jaded.

digitalsurgeonz 2y ago

good riddance.

theandrewbailey 2y ago

This is a risk of using a ccTLD (of a country in which you don't reside) in your cute domain.

ed_blackburn 2y ago

Well, my employers have a Mauritian domain. I shall have to volunteer to scope out the Mauritian tech scene, which, to be fair, I've heard positive things about before. So now I will have to do my research justice and attend in person.

gnfargbl 2y ago
This is an excellent plan and will doubtless pay long-term dividends for your employer who would be wise to fully fund your research. However do be aware that the μTech scene is largely a closed shop, and you shouldn't expect to make serious connections on your first visit. It's likely that you'll need to be there for at least a week every six months, perhaps for two or three years.
- toyg 2y ago
  I think it warrants establishing a permanent base of operations, running continuous training sessions for the benefit of the whole company. Obviously I'm talking about on-site training, which is much more beneficial than remote courses.

NikkiA 2y ago

The UK will be retaining a 99 year lease on Diego Garcia, so I imagine .io can still be referring to that for another hundred years or so; in a similar way to how .hk still exists, and existed at all.

dboreham 2y ago

Without reading the article: do not ever depend on a dodgy ccTLD for your brand recognition or other important thing.

mr_toad 2y ago
As if Verisign has never done anything shady. The whole industry is full of shady operators, from top to bottom.

craigmj 2y ago

Like the Elgin Marbles, the UK won't return the lot.

dang 2y ago

Related ongoing thread: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41729325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41729325 - Oct 2024 (33 comments)

saaaaaam 2y ago

I’m accidentally cross posting this because I left this thread to find the link then searched on HN and posted it to the wrong one. Worth reading Kevin Murphy’s piece here: https://domainincite.com/30395-future-of-io-domains-uncertain-as-uk-hands-over-chagos-islands https://domainincite.com/30395-future-of-io-domains-uncertai...

glub103011 2y ago

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