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What’s the correct way of talking about this issue on HN? Yeah, “rule of law falling apart” is a little extreme, but lots of people are frustrated with increase

What’s the correct way of talking about this issue on HN? Yeah, “rule of law falling apart” is a little extreme, but lots of people are frustrated with increased disorder.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
People are outraged about a packaged and sold narrative of increased disorder because it's an election year. Wait three months and they'll be onto something else.
- telotortium 2y ago
  I agree with you to an extent, but I’ve been following the trend of increased disorder (in the US) since 2020. It has gotten better since the peak of it from 2020-2022, but I’m not sure it has returned to pre-COVID levels. It’s hard to find indisputable statistics to measure this, but car thefts in 2023 were still at record highs: https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/car-theft-statistics/ https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/car-th.... Ordinarily car thefts are a pretty reliable statistic, because you need to file a police report to claim them for insurance. But the Kia/Hyundai thefts are probably still elevating the levels to some extent.
  - mindslight 2y ago
    In 2020 there were those society wide protests demanding law and order from those themselves tasked with enforcing the law. In response, state-sponsored gangs marched through the streets destroying property and attacking protestors with chemical weapons, and suffered very few repercussions for their organized crime. And the small amount of reform that did come from the protests led many "law enforcement" officers to quiet quit in response. If your goal is societal wide law and order, this dynamic makes for a very poor foundation. The fish rots from the head.
acdha 2y ago
Well, for starters you could pick a thread where it’s on-topic and do more than repeat the hyperbolic label being used for political purposes. Have a thesis, bring some data, and otherwise approach rationally rather than emotionally.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > Bring some data Go look up data and incidents yourself if you’re actually curious. Figure out how many retail stores face crimes. How many repeat offenders there are. How many lenient judges drop charges. Do the work yourself, instead of demanding it from others as a purity test to discuss things here. > approach rationally rather than emotionally Resorting to unsupported accusations of being emotional isn’t rational. > pick a thread where it’s on-topic Discussing other examples of Waymo related crimes, and how they’re part of a broader crime trend is completely on topic.
  - TheSalarian 2y ago
    It's no one's responsibility to go find the facts to back up your claims. Provide the evidence or be doubted - it's that simple.

What’s the correct way of talking about this issue on HN? Yeah, “rule of law falling apart” is a little extreme, but lots of people are frustrated with increased disorder.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

People are outraged about a packaged and sold narrative of increased disorder because it's an election year. Wait three months and they'll be onto something else.

telotortium 2y ago
I agree with you to an extent, but I’ve been following the trend of increased disorder (in the US) since 2020. It has gotten better since the peak of it from 2020-2022, but I’m not sure it has returned to pre-COVID levels. It’s hard to find indisputable statistics to measure this, but car thefts in 2023 were still at record highs: https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/car-theft-statistics/ https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/car-th.... Ordinarily car thefts are a pretty reliable statistic, because you need to file a police report to claim them for insurance. But the Kia/Hyundai thefts are probably still elevating the levels to some extent.
- mindslight 2y ago
  In 2020 there were those society wide protests demanding law and order from those themselves tasked with enforcing the law. In response, state-sponsored gangs marched through the streets destroying property and attacking protestors with chemical weapons, and suffered very few repercussions for their organized crime. And the small amount of reform that did come from the protests led many "law enforcement" officers to quiet quit in response. If your goal is societal wide law and order, this dynamic makes for a very poor foundation. The fish rots from the head.

acdha 2y ago

Well, for starters you could pick a thread where it’s on-topic and do more than repeat the hyperbolic label being used for political purposes. Have a thesis, bring some data, and otherwise approach rationally rather than emotionally.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
> Bring some data Go look up data and incidents yourself if you’re actually curious. Figure out how many retail stores face crimes. How many repeat offenders there are. How many lenient judges drop charges. Do the work yourself, instead of demanding it from others as a purity test to discuss things here. > approach rationally rather than emotionally Resorting to unsupported accusations of being emotional isn’t rational. > pick a thread where it’s on-topic Discussing other examples of Waymo related crimes, and how they’re part of a broader crime trend is completely on topic.
- TheSalarian 2y ago
  It's no one's responsibility to go find the facts to back up your claims. Provide the evidence or be doubted - it's that simple.