4 ms·

> I think complaining about culture is fine. A lot of people here in Europe, perhaps particularily so in France, do NOT think it's ok when American's on vacati

> I think complaining about culture is fine. A lot of people here in Europe, perhaps particularily so in France, do NOT think it's ok when American's on vacation overtly behave rudely and without respect. One attitude they tend to bring (that is more true in the US), is that "the customer is always right", and that the staff should just suck it up when they're being rude about it. Such Americans simply do not grasp that the small family restaurant in rural France has people in it that are NOT driven primarly by short term profit or tips, but (compared to a similar place in the US) more about tradition, professional pride and simply having an enjoyable time at work. The same is true many places in Asia. My point is that this goes both ways. That 21-year old waitress in that Hell's Kitchen restaurant has a completly different life situation. She may struggling to pay for her University fee, not to mention rent, and does not intend to stay a waitress forever. So when the German tourist is offended when she (having experienced Europeans before) makes a point of making a circle around the 18% recommended tip when handing him the check, it's for good reason. Also, just because even the base price of that steak he just ate is already higher than it would be in Germany, costs in Manhattan are correspondingly higher, so that price barely covers the expenses BEFORE the waitress can receive any kind of salary. So in your particular case, you're not like that German. You simply favor a slightly different political/economic system than what is currently in place in the US. Also, chances are that you WOULD pay that tip without making a scene.

vouaobrasil 2y ago
> Also, chances are that you WOULD pay that tip without making a scene. Who said anything about making a scene? I was talking about complaining here, as it seemed to be implied by one of the GPs. I'm not a social dolt. If I think the price is too expensive, I simply don't visit the establishment in the first place.
soco 2y ago
I think the point of the culture criticism is different in this context. Namely, that tipping as a culture is wrong. It's a must to tip your waiter in the States because that's basically their daily wage. But it's not okay to have to do it, the culture of not paying people directly but offloading it to the conscience of the customer is stupid. So this is the critique part. What would a software developer do, if instead of getting a monthly pay, they would receive tips from satisfied customers only? Honestly, would anyone here still keep their job and like it?
- trashtester 2y ago
  That NYC waitress is likely to have met quite a few European tourists who either tipped much too little, or were visibly grumpy at the expectation that they should tip. Also, plenty of software developers work as consultants on some kind of commission model where part or all of their salary is some percentage of what they're able charge their customer. Perhaps the customer doesn't pay the invoice, perhaps they don't want to hire you at all. But if you do a good job and manage keep the customer happy, you're likely to make a better wage than in a similar position with a fixed salary.

vouaobrasil 2y ago

> Also, chances are that you WOULD pay that tip without making a scene. Who said anything about making a scene? I was talking about complaining here, as it seemed to be implied by one of the GPs. I'm not a social dolt. If I think the price is too expensive, I simply don't visit the establishment in the first place.

soco 2y ago

I think the point of the culture criticism is different in this context. Namely, that tipping as a culture is wrong. It's a must to tip your waiter in the States because that's basically their daily wage. But it's not okay to have to do it, the culture of not paying people directly but offloading it to the conscience of the customer is stupid. So this is the critique part. What would a software developer do, if instead of getting a monthly pay, they would receive tips from satisfied customers only? Honestly, would anyone here still keep their job and like it?

trashtester 2y ago
That NYC waitress is likely to have met quite a few European tourists who either tipped much too little, or were visibly grumpy at the expectation that they should tip. Also, plenty of software developers work as consultants on some kind of commission model where part or all of their salary is some percentage of what they're able charge their customer. Perhaps the customer doesn't pay the invoice, perhaps they don't want to hire you at all. But if you do a good job and manage keep the customer happy, you're likely to make a better wage than in a similar position with a fixed salary.