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This looks like it's related to the "Orchestrated objective reduction" theory of consciousness [0], which is a brainchild of physicist Roger Penrose and an anes
by n4r9 2y ago
This looks like it's related to the "Orchestrated objective reduction" theory of consciousness [0], which is a brainchild of physicist Roger Penrose and an anesthesiologist named Stuart Hameroff. After 30 years it continues to have very serious problems and is generally rejected by physicists, mathematicians, computer scientists, and philosophers.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reducti...
- ricksunny 2y ago[flagged]
- PaulHoule 2y agoIf it wasn't too old to be the case I'd think that article was just A.I. Slop or charitably something like technobabble from the Sternbach and Okuda era of Star Trek. "I can do math because I'm a thetan" shows that emotionally true stories can beat out factually true stories in science as well as politics.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- halifaxbeard 2y agoI recently explained my personal beliefs around how you square free-will and determinism (and subsequently consciousness) to GPT-4 and it told me this was the more formal name for it. I posited that if you can observe and reconstruct the entire state of a complex system then you can predict future states- score one for determinism and no free will. But, we know there exists places that we cannot directly observe or perceive, aka quantum uncertainty, represented by σxσp ≥ ℏ/2 [1]. So based completely in theory, I figure the only way we square FW & determinism, is that free will exists somewhere/in a form we cannot directly observe, and it manifests as tiny influences that add up, in the complex system that is a brain. This is the way more speculative part and it's more fun than anything to think about- it doesn't change the way I live my life buuuut- Folded brains dramatically increase the influence a given region in space-time can have, simply due to the increased number of neurons. So our brains double as an antenna for some unseen influence that manifests through quantum uncertainty. So when I explained this to ChatGPT it told me that OORT was very similar to this, but even the mechanism they use for it seems to be a stretch for me. edit: But I do think that in order for neural networks to become anything other than outwardly really really good approximations of human minds, there needs to be a way to introduce a small amount of genuine randomness into their calculations, without utterly breaking them. I could see early attempts at doing this causing a form of LLM schizophrenia because the neural network wasn't resilient enough to the induced error. [1] the standard deviation of position σx and the standard deviation of momentum σp is greater than or equal to half the reduced planck's constant
- im3w1l 2y agoWe don't actually know if quantum physics has real randomness or not. Quantum collapse is an unsolved problem. > I could see early attempts at [introducing randomness] causing a form of LLM schizophrenia because the neural network wasn't resilient enough to the induced error. 1. This is actually already done. Temperature parameter controls amount of randomness. 2. Neural networks are quite noise resistant.
- Filligree 2y agoThe temperature parameter doesn’t introduce any noise into the network evaluation. Typically, what happens is that the network outputs a set of possible tokens with different probabilities, and a sampler picks from the top possibilities. Temperature determines how spiky its pick is; at zero it’ll always pick the top option.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoRejected by other experts who also have no idea how to explain consciousness.
- XorNot 2y agoYour theory having serious problems but no competitors does not actually solve the serious problems with it. If I can't tell you why the sky is blue, it doesn't make your theory that it's green more likely to be right.
- morbicer 2y agoFunny example. There are languages where sky is kinda green. Vietnamese: The word "xanh" can refer to both blue and green. Japanese: Historically, "ao" (青) could refer to both blue and green. Welsh: "Glas" can mean blue, green, or gray
- n4r9 2y agoWe're talking about people like Marvin Minsky or Hilary Putnam, who have made very significant contributions to the discourse. And if Max Tegmark thinks your claims are a bit too far out, you've got your work cut out.
- IWeldMelons 2y agoMarvin Minsky, Tegmark and Putnam have nothing to do with neuroscience, and have no authority to speak about the nature of consciousness.
- hshshshsvsv 2y agoWhy neuroscience has a monopoly on Consciousness?
- IWeldMelons 2y agoBecause it studies the only known vehicle of consciousness - neurons and their networks.