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Mostly replaced with gas, which is probably just as bad for climate change https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/na

by mavhc 2y ago

Mostly replaced with gas, which is probably just as bad for climate change https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/natural-gas-use-may-affect-climate-as-much-as-coal-does-if-methane-leaks-persist-68096816 https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights...

ianvisits 2y ago
Probably not. https://group.met.com/en/mind-the-fyouture/mindthefyouture/natural-gas-vs-coal https://group.met.com/en/mind-the-fyouture/mindthefyouture/n...
- peterpost2 2y ago
  That one looks only at carbon emissions, which is not the main issue with Natural gas. The problem is that since it's a gas it leaks and natural gas in the atmosphere is a very very potent greenhouse gas.Though ofcourse over time in will break down to simple co2
cpressland 2y ago
At least it’s still lower on average than renewables at the moment [1]. I’m not sure what the current state of Nuclear Reactor construction is like, but hopefully we get some come online soon. [1] https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/
- killingtime74 2y ago
  If no one has started any (other than mainly China? theres one in France) https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-fu..., why would they suddenly come online.
  - Mistletoe 2y ago
    I feel like the internet hype machine for nuclear is like some dead hand machine gone wrong that doesn’t know nuclear is already dead.
    - melling 2y ago
      It’s stories like these that tell us the United States wants to triple nuclear energy: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/27/americas-coal-communities-could-help-the-us-triple-nuclear-power.html?&qsearchterm=nuclear https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/27/americas-coal-communities-co... And restarting closed plants is becoming a thing https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/30/michigan-nuclear-plant-finalizes-federal-loan-to-support-first-reactor-restart-in-us-history.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/30/michigan-nuclear-plant-final...
      - blitzar 2y ago
        I have read these same stories about "doubling" or "trippling" nuclear for more than 20 years. In that 20 years there has been ~0 increase in US nuclear power generation, and in the UK it has halved.
        melling 2y ago
        Yeah, people wanted to greatly reduce CO2 emissions. The renewable crowd said we didn’t need it. Now we’re way behind in reducing emissions. All these stories about AI needing electricity. Where’s the renewable solution?
        blitzar 2y ago
        Having worked in the industry, "the renewable crowd" were heavily pro nuclear. Clean coal, clean gas, carbon capture, and the "nothing bad happens when you burn coal I would happily live next to a coal power plant" crowd are the real issue. That's the grift that keeps on grifting.
        jillesvangurp 2y ago
        Actually nuclear has negative growth at this point. There are a lot of aging plants coming up for either closure or expensive investments needed to keep them going a bit longer.
  - harg 2y ago
    Hinckley point C is under construction in the uk and on track for 2026 opening Edit: potentially delayed by some years
    - jillesvangurp 2y ago
      Definitely delayed to at least 2031 and probably beyond. It was never really on any track other than for the inevitable delays and budget overruns.
klelatti 2y ago
'Mostly' isn't true over the last decade which is the period of the most recent big shift from Coal. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-mix-uk https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-mix-uk
- mavhc 2y ago
  That graph shows gas is the most used fuel in the UK for all years since coal was the most
  - klelatti 2y ago
    Mostly replaced implies >50% which is not the case. Gas is the most used fuel but has not 'mostly replaced' coal.
    - mavhc 2y ago
      It's approx 50%, and it's more than any other. 1991 Coal 62% Gas 1.72% 2023 Coal 1.28% Gas 31.71% So Coal dropped 60.72, Gas rose 30, oh no, it's slightly less than 50%, my point is invalid
mhandley 2y ago
The graph in the article makes clear that isn't really true. Around half of coal use was replaced by natural gas in the 1990s, as you say. That's still a win - same energy, but half the CO2 emmisions. But since 2010 or so, the remainder of coal use was largely replaced by renewables. Now we just need to get rid of the remaining natural gas use. For electricity production, the trend here is pretty good. Natural gas won't disappear anytime soon, but there will be longer and longer periods where none is burned. But for home heating, I don't think gas will be phased out as fast as really needs to be done.
dflock 2y ago
> In 2010, renewables generated just 7% of the UK’s power. By the first half of 2024, this had grown to more than 50%
- gandalfian 2y ago
  <In 2010, renewables generated just 7% of the UK’s power. By the first half of 2024, this had grown to more than 50%> Electricity not power just to be pedantic. Most power is still from directly burning gas and oil.

by mavhc 2y ago

ianvisits 2y ago

Probably not. https://group.met.com/en/mind-the-fyouture/mindthefyouture/natural-gas-vs-coal https://group.met.com/en/mind-the-fyouture/mindthefyouture/n...

peterpost2 2y ago
That one looks only at carbon emissions, which is not the main issue with Natural gas. The problem is that since it's a gas it leaks and natural gas in the atmosphere is a very very potent greenhouse gas.Though ofcourse over time in will break down to simple co2

cpressland 2y ago

At least it’s still lower on average than renewables at the moment [1]. I’m not sure what the current state of Nuclear Reactor construction is like, but hopefully we get some come online soon. [1] https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/

killingtime74 2y ago
If no one has started any (other than mainly China? theres one in France) https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-fu..., why would they suddenly come online.
- Mistletoe 2y ago
  I feel like the internet hype machine for nuclear is like some dead hand machine gone wrong that doesn’t know nuclear is already dead.
  - melling 2y ago
    It’s stories like these that tell us the United States wants to triple nuclear energy: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/27/americas-coal-communities-could-help-the-us-triple-nuclear-power.html?&qsearchterm=nuclear https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/27/americas-coal-communities-co... And restarting closed plants is becoming a thing https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/30/michigan-nuclear-plant-finalizes-federal-loan-to-support-first-reactor-restart-in-us-history.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/30/michigan-nuclear-plant-final...
    - blitzar 2y ago
      I have read these same stories about "doubling" or "trippling" nuclear for more than 20 years. In that 20 years there has been ~0 increase in US nuclear power generation, and in the UK it has halved.
      - melling 2y ago
        Yeah, people wanted to greatly reduce CO2 emissions. The renewable crowd said we didn’t need it. Now we’re way behind in reducing emissions. All these stories about AI needing electricity. Where’s the renewable solution?
        blitzar 2y ago
        Having worked in the industry, "the renewable crowd" were heavily pro nuclear. Clean coal, clean gas, carbon capture, and the "nothing bad happens when you burn coal I would happily live next to a coal power plant" crowd are the real issue. That's the grift that keeps on grifting.
      - jillesvangurp 2y ago
        Actually nuclear has negative growth at this point. There are a lot of aging plants coming up for either closure or expensive investments needed to keep them going a bit longer.
- harg 2y ago
  Hinckley point C is under construction in the uk and on track for 2026 opening Edit: potentially delayed by some years
  - jillesvangurp 2y ago
    Definitely delayed to at least 2031 and probably beyond. It was never really on any track other than for the inevitable delays and budget overruns.

klelatti 2y ago

'Mostly' isn't true over the last decade which is the period of the most recent big shift from Coal. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-mix-uk https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-mix-uk

mavhc 2y ago
That graph shows gas is the most used fuel in the UK for all years since coal was the most
- klelatti 2y ago
  Mostly replaced implies >50% which is not the case. Gas is the most used fuel but has not 'mostly replaced' coal.
  - mavhc 2y ago
    It's approx 50%, and it's more than any other. 1991 Coal 62% Gas 1.72% 2023 Coal 1.28% Gas 31.71% So Coal dropped 60.72, Gas rose 30, oh no, it's slightly less than 50%, my point is invalid

mhandley 2y ago

The graph in the article makes clear that isn't really true. Around half of coal use was replaced by natural gas in the 1990s, as you say. That's still a win - same energy, but half the CO2 emmisions. But since 2010 or so, the remainder of coal use was largely replaced by renewables. Now we just need to get rid of the remaining natural gas use. For electricity production, the trend here is pretty good. Natural gas won't disappear anytime soon, but there will be longer and longer periods where none is burned. But for home heating, I don't think gas will be phased out as fast as really needs to be done.

dflock 2y ago

> In 2010, renewables generated just 7% of the UK’s power. By the first half of 2024, this had grown to more than 50%

gandalfian 2y ago
<In 2010, renewables generated just 7% of the UK’s power. By the first half of 2024, this had grown to more than 50%> Electricity not power just to be pedantic. Most power is still from directly burning gas and oil.