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I hate the term “woke”… and pretty much any other term that takes a heavily nuanced subject and condenses into one word for lazy minds to use and misuse. I hate

I hate the term “woke”… and pretty much any other term that takes a heavily nuanced subject and condenses into one word for lazy minds to use and misuse. I hated the term when the left introduced it 10+ years ago, and I hate it now that the right has taken it over.

dredmorbius 2y ago
The term dates to the 1930s in its current social awareness usage: <https://scientificorigin.com/origin-of-the-word-woke https://scientificorigin.com/origin-of-the-word-woke> <https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188543449/what-does-the-word-woke-really-mean-and-where-does-it-come-from https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188543449/what-does-the-word...>
- TeaBrain 2y ago
  Both of those articles reference only a single historical quote using the term, that being the 1938 song "Scottsboro Boys". The way the term is used in the song also isn't the way that is used today, but as a way to communicate to stay vigilant.
superb_dev 2y ago
At least woke had a real meaning when it started, now the right just uses it as “anything the the other guys do that I don’t like”
- standardUser 2y ago
  It's hard to argue this is inaccurate. The origin of the term isn't really up for debate. And the way the conservative movement uses the term is overwhelming well-documented at this point.
- spinach 2y ago
  It's usually used to mean identity politics, isn't it? The origin of the word has it's roots in racism, but now it's come to basically mean all forms of identity politics.
  - superb_dev 2y ago
    No, it’s an adjective to describe a person. Someone who is “awake” to the structural oppression around them. I guess you could call structural oppression “identity politics”, but that seriously feels like a dog whistle.
    - lazyeye 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - superb_dev 2y ago
        That is not a correct way to rephrase the definition I gave. Saying everything gets viewed through “oppressor/oppressed” is wrong and disingenuous. It implies that they are looking for something that isn’t there rather than noticing something that’s already there.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        lazyeye 2y ago
        Either that or the opposite is true.
  - razakel 2y ago
    All politics fundamentally concerns identity.
- dotnet00 2y ago
  I'd like to counter this, but yeah... lots of people just throw "woke" and "DEI" around for everything not good, it's extremely painful to see. - Boeing sucks at building stuff: blame woke hiring - SpaceX has a landing failure: blame DEI hires at suppliers I wouldn't be surprised if they shout at the sky screaming about woke clouds when they get caught in rain without an umbrella
  - falcolas 2y ago
    DEI is a replacement word, especially when used in the phrase "DEI hire". It's a replacement for Black, more specifically "N**r". It's been really weird to see "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" become a hate word.
  - Izkata 2y ago
    Both of those mean "hiring based on identity politics instead of ability to do the job" (though different sub-groups, the first being activists and the second being the groups the activists focus on). It's not a simplistic "not good".
    - dotnet00 2y ago
      I know that's what those are supposed to mean, but that's not how the average poster on social media seems to use it. Like with my example of the SpaceX landing failure, it was a booster that had flown over 20 times, had flown a trajectory at the edge of its performance, the leading theory (IIRC) was/is that some components on the legs finally wore out too much. Testing these limits has been one of the side-benefits of Starlink launches on used boosters. So, seeing a bunch of people stupidly freaking out about this being due to DEI just shows that they don't actually know what "DEI hiring" is as a complaint.
      - Jensson 2y ago
        > I know that's what those are supposed to mean, but that's not how the average poster on social media seems to use it. This applies for every single word, average poster on social media are dumb. Toxic masculinity is similarly misused etc.
- shaneofalltrad 2y ago
  This comment is probably the most correct reason "woke" has a negative tone now, because they chose to use it as a way to ignore their behaviors or associations that might not be the most empathetic of others, aligning it with this "woke" movement allows them to turn their back on the topic. Hard for those that care about topics to engage in bringing to light when half the Country puts your comment on blast for being too "woke". It's like Idiocracy at it's infancy.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  [dead]
DasIch 2y ago
FYI the "left" has introduced woke 90+ years ago in the 1930s. It merely increased in popularity.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Technically, didn't they introduce it in 1861?
jjaacckk 2y ago
Making it easier to name makes it easier to criticise. I think this is your real concern.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Lerc 2y ago
  It makes it easier to characterise. The way it does so is by eliminating nuance and making a word that doesn't express the opinions that people actually have. Making it easier to characterise makes the characterisation easier to criticise, but that's not a meaningful target. Use of unnuanced terminology creates battlefields far away from the positions that people actually care about. Defund the police is used as a phrase by people who want a well regulated well funded police system. Only a very few extreme people want to eliminate police correctly Microaggression is used in academia with a degree of specificity but there are those who will use it to mean "Thing I don't like". Dunning Kruger is a non partisan term that is misused similarly. I don't particularly like the term woke myself but I also tend to agree with Godwin's second law.
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    [flagged]
HDThoreaun 2y ago
The problem with "wokeism" is that it isnt very nuanced though. Sure the academic form of it is, Ive read Kendi and found him quite nuanced. But the political movement formed on the backs of these academics works is decidedly lacking in nuance. It continuously misinterprets the academics who started the movement and then makes litmus tests around those mistaken interpretations. It very much is a populist movement

dredmorbius 2y ago

The term dates to the 1930s in its current social awareness usage: <https://scientificorigin.com/origin-of-the-word-woke https://scientificorigin.com/origin-of-the-word-woke> <https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188543449/what-does-the-word-woke-really-mean-and-where-does-it-come-from https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188543449/what-does-the-word...>

TeaBrain 2y ago
Both of those articles reference only a single historical quote using the term, that being the 1938 song "Scottsboro Boys". The way the term is used in the song also isn't the way that is used today, but as a way to communicate to stay vigilant.

superb_dev 2y ago

At least woke had a real meaning when it started, now the right just uses it as “anything the the other guys do that I don’t like”

standardUser 2y ago
It's hard to argue this is inaccurate. The origin of the term isn't really up for debate. And the way the conservative movement uses the term is overwhelming well-documented at this point.
spinach 2y ago
It's usually used to mean identity politics, isn't it? The origin of the word has it's roots in racism, but now it's come to basically mean all forms of identity politics.
- superb_dev 2y ago
  No, it’s an adjective to describe a person. Someone who is “awake” to the structural oppression around them. I guess you could call structural oppression “identity politics”, but that seriously feels like a dog whistle.
  - lazyeye 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - superb_dev 2y ago
      That is not a correct way to rephrase the definition I gave. Saying everything gets viewed through “oppressor/oppressed” is wrong and disingenuous. It implies that they are looking for something that isn’t there rather than noticing something that’s already there.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - lazyeye 2y ago
        Either that or the opposite is true.
- razakel 2y ago
  All politics fundamentally concerns identity.
dotnet00 2y ago
I'd like to counter this, but yeah... lots of people just throw "woke" and "DEI" around for everything not good, it's extremely painful to see. - Boeing sucks at building stuff: blame woke hiring - SpaceX has a landing failure: blame DEI hires at suppliers I wouldn't be surprised if they shout at the sky screaming about woke clouds when they get caught in rain without an umbrella
- falcolas 2y ago
  DEI is a replacement word, especially when used in the phrase "DEI hire". It's a replacement for Black, more specifically "N**r". It's been really weird to see "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" become a hate word.
- Izkata 2y ago
  Both of those mean "hiring based on identity politics instead of ability to do the job" (though different sub-groups, the first being activists and the second being the groups the activists focus on). It's not a simplistic "not good".
  - dotnet00 2y ago
    I know that's what those are supposed to mean, but that's not how the average poster on social media seems to use it. Like with my example of the SpaceX landing failure, it was a booster that had flown over 20 times, had flown a trajectory at the edge of its performance, the leading theory (IIRC) was/is that some components on the legs finally wore out too much. Testing these limits has been one of the side-benefits of Starlink launches on used boosters. So, seeing a bunch of people stupidly freaking out about this being due to DEI just shows that they don't actually know what "DEI hiring" is as a complaint.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      > I know that's what those are supposed to mean, but that's not how the average poster on social media seems to use it. This applies for every single word, average poster on social media are dumb. Toxic masculinity is similarly misused etc.
shaneofalltrad 2y ago
This comment is probably the most correct reason "woke" has a negative tone now, because they chose to use it as a way to ignore their behaviors or associations that might not be the most empathetic of others, aligning it with this "woke" movement allows them to turn their back on the topic. Hard for those that care about topics to engage in bringing to light when half the Country puts your comment on blast for being too "woke". It's like Idiocracy at it's infancy.
raxxorraxor 2y ago
[dead]

DasIch 2y ago

FYI the "left" has introduced woke 90+ years ago in the 1930s. It merely increased in popularity.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Technically, didn't they introduce it in 1861?

jjaacckk 2y ago

Making it easier to name makes it easier to criticise. I think this is your real concern.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Lerc 2y ago
It makes it easier to characterise. The way it does so is by eliminating nuance and making a word that doesn't express the opinions that people actually have. Making it easier to characterise makes the characterisation easier to criticise, but that's not a meaningful target. Use of unnuanced terminology creates battlefields far away from the positions that people actually care about. Defund the police is used as a phrase by people who want a well regulated well funded police system. Only a very few extreme people want to eliminate police correctly Microaggression is used in academia with a degree of specificity but there are those who will use it to mean "Thing I don't like". Dunning Kruger is a non partisan term that is misused similarly. I don't particularly like the term woke myself but I also tend to agree with Godwin's second law.
- lostmsu 2y ago
  [flagged]

HDThoreaun 2y ago

The problem with "wokeism" is that it isnt very nuanced though. Sure the academic form of it is, Ive read Kendi and found him quite nuanced. But the political movement formed on the backs of these academics works is decidedly lacking in nuance. It continuously misinterprets the academics who started the movement and then makes litmus tests around those mistaken interpretations. It very much is a populist movement