5 ms·

If it's in the public interest, and it's true, then it's news and should be published regardless of who came up with it or their possible motives are for doing

by Canada 2y ago

If it's in the public interest, and it's true, then it's news and should be published regardless of who came up with it or their possible motives are for doing so. The PDF link posted by moneycantbuy in this thread appears to be appropriately redacted, hiding personal information which isn't newsworthy such as his social security number and home address.. but even then, I just tried Googling "JD Vance home" and I get tons of results showing his home. I'm sure anyone could go to the Hamilton County records office and obtain the redacted property records. Basically, this all looks like public information. There's no good reason for any platform to censor this, unless a version containing the unredacted SSN is floating around.. I can see reason in disallowing that version, if it exists.

fleabagmange 2y ago
On the other hand this type of censorship occurred in favor of the Biden candidacy in relation to the Hunter Biden laptop scandal. What’s fair is fair, if they censor one set of controversial findings they ought censor the other.
- Canada 2y ago
  I think the censorship of this JD Vance document is positive for the Harris campaign. The actual document is run-of-the-mill opposition research, but when some people unfamiliar with the contents hear about it being censored they will assume it's as scandalous as Hunter Biden's laptop.
- Larrikin 2y ago
  Which office was Hunter Biden running for last cycle?
  - djohnston 2y ago
    That’s hardly a reasonable retort. The contents implicated Hunter Biden being used as a pay-to-play doorway to his father, who was running last cycle. Using a middle man doesn’t make it less corrupt.
    - decremental 2y ago
      [dead]
HKH2 2y ago
> and it's true That's the problematic part. The factcheckers can just sit on something that doesn't help their cause and then attempt to deal with it years later. E.g. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/
- Canada 2y ago
  Yeah, I agree. It's not the place of a social media platform to judge. There's no such thing as unbiased, neutral fact checkers. Readers will have to judge the truth of it for themselves. I was trying to say that it shouldn't matter if the information came from mainstream news source, a hacker, enemy state or whoever else. My understanding is that meta blocked the dossier solely on the basis of where they believe the information originated.
  - HKH2 2y ago
    Social media platforms have to comply with local political pressure (both official and unofficial), so they are somewhat forced to. Do we really have any governments that will allow people to judge for themselves? I can understand a government's hesitancy to do that, because if the whole society believes the same mistruths (especially about history, politics etc.), it is more stable and productive than one which has people at odds with each other over what they consider the truth to be.
aaron695 2y ago
You seem oblivious to what doxing is. > this all looks like public information. Yes, doxing is public info. Can I publish all the names and street addresses and phone numbers in a document of Kamala Harris's extended family to make some newsworthy point about their homes. (rich = she's not one of us / poor = she's not good enough if she can't pull her relatives out of poverty) > I'm sure anyone could go to the Hamilton County records office This is a site for hackers, try and learn the difference between data available in search, data available online and data available in the meat world. These are not the same, as a hacker (Startup/Blackhat/curious) this difference matters. The dossier poisoned itself permanently doxing with the phone number & home address. Kiwi Farms/8chan/4chan are there for people who want to dox. (Kiwi Farms has the unredacted version, Ken Klippenstein redacted his download)
- Dracophoenix 2y ago
  > Can I publish all the names and street addresses and phone numbers in a document of Kamala Harris's extended family to make some newsworthy point about their homes. (rich = she's not one of us / poor = she's not good enough if she can't pull her relatives out of poverty) Yes. Such a document is or at least was once referred to as a phonebook. >try and learn the difference between data available in search, data available online and data available in the meat world. These are not the same, as a hacker (Startup/Blackhat/curious) this difference matters. Citizen and professional journalists regularly record and expose persons of interest going about their daily lives. For decades now, they've obtained this information not through requisitions from city hall, but through online databases like Lexis Nexis or municipal criminal record databases. It's not a crime to publish an inconvenient truth. In fact, when individuals come forward as whistleblowers, they are lionized for their divulgence of the truth.
arnaudsm 2y ago
It's not in the public interest if it's not authentified. We had a similar leak during the french presidential election, the "MacronLeaks". It was a mix of fabricated scandalous data, and legitimate boring data. I'm glad the media chose not to cover it.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  In the US we have a long history of claiming that leaks are fabricated but I can’t think of a single one that actually has been. They just lie about it and then after the election admit they were lying. Exact thing happened with wikileaks Hillary email leak and the Hunter Biden laptop.
- PeterStuer 2y ago
  And who will do this 'authentofication'? We've had lies, coverups and collusions by 'fact checkers', authorities, Media and the scientific community alike on all sides of the politicaly spectra across the globe. At this point, just have the debates in public about what is and is not true. The sweaty palms of those trying to shepherd the public reek of propaganda and corruption. "I'm glad the media chose not to cover it" Why? Because this time it served your own preferences? Will you br ate where you as glad when its the opposite side 'protecting' you?
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    Yeah actually the same thing happened with the Macron email leak - not a shred of evidence has been produced that any of the emails are forgeries. It is just a common disinformation technique to say “there are fake emails among these” and then refuse to clarify.
    - arnaudsm 2y ago
      That's incorrect, the metadata of the emails were incorrectly scrubbed and proven to be forgeries. You can check the files yourself. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/08/macron-hackers-linked-to-russian-affiliated-group-behind-us-attack https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/08/macron-hackers...
mindslight 2y ago
> unless a version containing the unredacted SSN is floating around That is not a good reason. Social Security numbers are not secret, rather they're akin to a name equivalent. Negligent companies continue abusing them as if knowing them proves identity, because they apparently find it more profitable to reduce customer friction and then eat the resulting fraud (at least the fraud they can't push on to others). This and the financial industry's whole larger "identity theft" ruse is supported by the needless tiptoeing around ID numbers, and we need to just stop.
leereeves 2y ago
> If it's in the public interest What's in this dossier that's in the public interest?

by Canada 2y ago

fleabagmange 2y ago

On the other hand this type of censorship occurred in favor of the Biden candidacy in relation to the Hunter Biden laptop scandal. What’s fair is fair, if they censor one set of controversial findings they ought censor the other.

Canada 2y ago
I think the censorship of this JD Vance document is positive for the Harris campaign. The actual document is run-of-the-mill opposition research, but when some people unfamiliar with the contents hear about it being censored they will assume it's as scandalous as Hunter Biden's laptop.
Larrikin 2y ago
Which office was Hunter Biden running for last cycle?
- djohnston 2y ago
  That’s hardly a reasonable retort. The contents implicated Hunter Biden being used as a pay-to-play doorway to his father, who was running last cycle. Using a middle man doesn’t make it less corrupt.
  - decremental 2y ago
    [dead]

HKH2 2y ago

> and it's true That's the problematic part. The factcheckers can just sit on something that doesn't help their cause and then attempt to deal with it years later. E.g. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/

Canada 2y ago
Yeah, I agree. It's not the place of a social media platform to judge. There's no such thing as unbiased, neutral fact checkers. Readers will have to judge the truth of it for themselves. I was trying to say that it shouldn't matter if the information came from mainstream news source, a hacker, enemy state or whoever else. My understanding is that meta blocked the dossier solely on the basis of where they believe the information originated.
- HKH2 2y ago
  Social media platforms have to comply with local political pressure (both official and unofficial), so they are somewhat forced to. Do we really have any governments that will allow people to judge for themselves? I can understand a government's hesitancy to do that, because if the whole society believes the same mistruths (especially about history, politics etc.), it is more stable and productive than one which has people at odds with each other over what they consider the truth to be.

aaron695 2y ago

You seem oblivious to what doxing is. > this all looks like public information. Yes, doxing is public info. Can I publish all the names and street addresses and phone numbers in a document of Kamala Harris's extended family to make some newsworthy point about their homes. (rich = she's not one of us / poor = she's not good enough if she can't pull her relatives out of poverty) > I'm sure anyone could go to the Hamilton County records office This is a site for hackers, try and learn the difference between data available in search, data available online and data available in the meat world. These are not the same, as a hacker (Startup/Blackhat/curious) this difference matters. The dossier poisoned itself permanently doxing with the phone number & home address. Kiwi Farms/8chan/4chan are there for people who want to dox. (Kiwi Farms has the unredacted version, Ken Klippenstein redacted his download)

Dracophoenix 2y ago
> Can I publish all the names and street addresses and phone numbers in a document of Kamala Harris's extended family to make some newsworthy point about their homes. (rich = she's not one of us / poor = she's not good enough if she can't pull her relatives out of poverty) Yes. Such a document is or at least was once referred to as a phonebook. >try and learn the difference between data available in search, data available online and data available in the meat world. These are not the same, as a hacker (Startup/Blackhat/curious) this difference matters. Citizen and professional journalists regularly record and expose persons of interest going about their daily lives. For decades now, they've obtained this information not through requisitions from city hall, but through online databases like Lexis Nexis or municipal criminal record databases. It's not a crime to publish an inconvenient truth. In fact, when individuals come forward as whistleblowers, they are lionized for their divulgence of the truth.

arnaudsm 2y ago

It's not in the public interest if it's not authentified. We had a similar leak during the french presidential election, the "MacronLeaks". It was a mix of fabricated scandalous data, and legitimate boring data. I'm glad the media chose not to cover it.

whimsicalism 2y ago
In the US we have a long history of claiming that leaks are fabricated but I can’t think of a single one that actually has been. They just lie about it and then after the election admit they were lying. Exact thing happened with wikileaks Hillary email leak and the Hunter Biden laptop.
PeterStuer 2y ago
And who will do this 'authentofication'? We've had lies, coverups and collusions by 'fact checkers', authorities, Media and the scientific community alike on all sides of the politicaly spectra across the globe. At this point, just have the debates in public about what is and is not true. The sweaty palms of those trying to shepherd the public reek of propaganda and corruption. "I'm glad the media chose not to cover it" Why? Because this time it served your own preferences? Will you br ate where you as glad when its the opposite side 'protecting' you?
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  Yeah actually the same thing happened with the Macron email leak - not a shred of evidence has been produced that any of the emails are forgeries. It is just a common disinformation technique to say “there are fake emails among these” and then refuse to clarify.
  - arnaudsm 2y ago
    That's incorrect, the metadata of the emails were incorrectly scrubbed and proven to be forgeries. You can check the files yourself. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/08/macron-hackers-linked-to-russian-affiliated-group-behind-us-attack https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/08/macron-hackers...

mindslight 2y ago

> unless a version containing the unredacted SSN is floating around That is not a good reason. Social Security numbers are not secret, rather they're akin to a name equivalent. Negligent companies continue abusing them as if knowing them proves identity, because they apparently find it more profitable to reduce customer friction and then eat the resulting fraud (at least the fraud they can't push on to others). This and the financial industry's whole larger "identity theft" ruse is supported by the needless tiptoeing around ID numbers, and we need to just stop.

leereeves 2y ago

> If it's in the public interest What's in this dossier that's in the public interest?