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This is good news. When I read the news that Apple is going to invest into OpenAI, I was a bit sad because Apple always tries to avoid to jump into the hype tra

This is good news. When I read the news that Apple is going to invest into OpenAI, I was a bit sad because Apple always tries to avoid to jump into the hype trains like blockchain, NFTs, metaverse etc. Yes, there is Apple Intelligence but it is mostly writing tools, Xcode code completion, an emoji generator and so on. Nothing like something that is going to replace jobs, AGI and so on how OpenAI is marketing their products.

redleader55 2y ago
> Apple always tries to avoid to jump into the hype trains like blockchain, NFTs, metaverse etc. What do you mean by "avoid ..metaverse"? They released a premium headset for AR/VR.
- Nevermark 2y ago
  That isn’t the metaverse. No dancing Zucks. “Killer app” (as far as there is one) is focus. Being able to surround yourself with a large Mac screen & several Safari & iOS-type app screens, in a beautiful natural environment, and get real work done.
  - eastbound 2y ago
    Those features are often assumed, but are NOT present in the Vision Pro. There is only one display for apps. It’s not large. Rather tiny compared to your field of view. The features are restricted around what an iPhone can do: View photos, view movies, view your browser one tab at a time. Immersively, yes, but anything actually productive is excluded from the Vision Pro. There is no killer app in the Vision Pro. My 32” screen can display more windows than the Vision Pro.
    - kalleboo 2y ago
      Where are you getting this from? It's not correct. You can absolutely have multiple browser windows open with different pages in them and put them all around you
      - snapcaster 2y ago
        You can't get multiple windows from your mac though. My main complaint is that you're still subject to a single mac os x window. Although I've heard visionOS 2 is improving this haven't had a chance to try it out yet
    - sethd 2y ago
      > Those features are often assumed, but are NOT present in the Vision Pro. Yes they are. Source: I develop for the device.
      - eastbound 2y ago
        Ok. Well that’s possibly under NDA, because in the Apple Store demo they say it’s impossible. But in any case: Several browsers isn’t several apps. It’s really not like having several computers screens around you.
        axoltl 2y ago
        Are you using the Vision Pro, or are you relying on 3rd party information? I use the Vision Pro every day and I have several apps open at the same constantly. That said, it is currently only one macOS screen and macOS apps don't bridge. This isn't (to me!) a huge limitation as the applications I might put on a second monitor I simply run natively. So macOS has Xcode full-screened, and I have the relevant documentation website up in a native Safari screen (to my right), YouTube (Juno app) floating above the macOS screen, and the Music app on my left.
- ClassyJacket 2y ago
  Metaverse isn't VR. Meta in particular just happens to be integrating them since they make both.
- sealeck 2y ago
  They haven't marketed it as "metaverse" to try to please investors, it's something they've been working on for years and have now got a working initial version they've released.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    For the record: neither has Meta/Facebook. Their stock crashed hard after they pivoted to focus on the metaverse. It has since more then recovered - but saying that Meta marketed their VR to please investors is kinda silly considering how Mark Zuckerberg keeps doubling down on this investment to date - despite how massively the stock crashed.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Metaverse means the Ready Player One / Horizon Worlds social experience where everyone is an avatar in a shared virtual world all able to interact with each other. Apple hasn't just not implemented this they've made it impossible for developers to as well. Because only Apple can access the sensors needed to create the 3D avatar and only Apple is allowed access to this avatar i.e. it is restricted to SharePlay with your friends.
- hu3 2y ago
  The knee-jerk replies you're getting are hilarious. The reality distortion field is as strong as ver. You see, because it's Apple, it can't be a bet in virtual reality with a bad connotation (metaverse). To some, Apple can do no wrong nor do they make mistakes. If they invest (and fail) in VR it was from a good angle, not purely for profit (just like Meta). But seriously now, you can bet your left kidney that if Apple ever manages to make AR/VR work they will try to milk every penny and dime from the gullible while pretending that "it's good for you" like they do with their broken walled gardens. /rant
  - AnonHP 2y ago
    Apple has been talking more about AR and discounting VR (like Meta’s grocery shopping and other “metaverse”) for many years now. Past keynote addresses as well as interviews with Tim Cook show that Apple didn’t consider VR alone as a game changer. So far, it looks like Meta changed its view from VR-only and got into AR (with the new glasses). Apple is still pushing AR (with some VR). Will Apple change its mind? Perhaps. That’s a good thing for companies to do in the face of new evidence/reception from the market.
    - vlovich123 2y ago
      Meta was in AR R&D before Apple. Not sure where you’re getting the impression they pivoted. They’ve always wanted to do AR but the tech isn’t there (that’s why they announced the Orion internal prototype but still don’t have a product).
- dagmx 2y ago
  The “metaverse” isn’t tied to AR/VR. The metaverse , in most common definitions, refers to a virtual world and ecosystem as an alternate for the real one. See Ready Player One. Second life is a metaverse platform in essence. But isn’t VR. Fortnite is a metaverse but isn’t VR. Their programming language is even called Verse. The Quest itself isn’t a metaverse product BUT Horizon Worlds (not The confusingly named HorizonOS) is. You can participate in Horizon without a headset. Apple has no metaverse product. There might be metaverse products on Apple devices but that’s no different than an iPhone or Mac playing the things I mentioned above. There is almost no definition of metaverse that includes augmented reality.
  - leptons 2y ago
    >Second life is a metaverse platform in essence. But isn’t VR. Second Life can and has been used with a VR headset, so yeah, it is in essence VR. Whether or not it's a good experience doesn't matter, Second Life certainly can meet the requirement for "virtual reality", depending on your definition of "VR".
    - dagmx 2y ago
      There are VR mods for many games but nobody considers them VR games. But if we’re being pedantic, then “Second Life doesn’t require VR”. It predates mainstream VR headsets by a decade.
  - kevindamm 2y ago
    should mention VRChat in that list too, imo
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
Topfi 2y ago
> metaverse What about the Apple Vision Pro?
- mertbio 2y ago
  In my opinion, Apple Vision Pro is a device that will eventually replace iPhone, iPad and Mac. See Meta’s Orion glasses. That’s the goal of the Vision Pro, not metaverse. It just needs some time, like 5-10 years.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    I hope so. But their marketing for the Pro focused a lot on trying to replace your Mac (neat) while at a cafe (a bit dystopian, so I'm ambivalent), and on the same kinds of conference calls Meta tried to push. I guess we'll see.
- nkrisc 2y ago
  What about it? VR != Metaverse. (FWIW I think both are way overhyped)
  - Topfi 2y ago
    I see the two interlinked, similar to how modern day smartphones such as the iPhone with full web page support weren't called Web 2.0 devices, yet were integral in the proliferation and growth of Web 2.0 tech to what it is today. In the same vain, even if the highest end VR/AR device on the market isn't marketed with a "Metaverse" focus, it will be integral in whether such a thing succeeds or fails.
anileated 2y ago
I suspect Apple’s approach will depend on whether they see LLM integration as critical or not. If not (which I think is the way to go, a functional purpose-built accessible UI is always better than a chatbot, and generative fluff is best left to apps) then they will go for swappable LLM backends, bypassing any legal/geopolitical restrictions. Keeps eggs diversified in multiple baskets and offers negotiation leverage (and that if Apple doesn’t find a no-frills way to pass system-integrated LLM use costs onto end users). If yes, they will probably go full in-house. They can afford it.

redleader55 2y ago

> Apple always tries to avoid to jump into the hype trains like blockchain, NFTs, metaverse etc. What do you mean by "avoid ..metaverse"? They released a premium headset for AR/VR.

Nevermark 2y ago
That isn’t the metaverse. No dancing Zucks. “Killer app” (as far as there is one) is focus. Being able to surround yourself with a large Mac screen & several Safari & iOS-type app screens, in a beautiful natural environment, and get real work done.
- eastbound 2y ago
  Those features are often assumed, but are NOT present in the Vision Pro. There is only one display for apps. It’s not large. Rather tiny compared to your field of view. The features are restricted around what an iPhone can do: View photos, view movies, view your browser one tab at a time. Immersively, yes, but anything actually productive is excluded from the Vision Pro. There is no killer app in the Vision Pro. My 32” screen can display more windows than the Vision Pro.
  - kalleboo 2y ago
    Where are you getting this from? It's not correct. You can absolutely have multiple browser windows open with different pages in them and put them all around you
    - snapcaster 2y ago
      You can't get multiple windows from your mac though. My main complaint is that you're still subject to a single mac os x window. Although I've heard visionOS 2 is improving this haven't had a chance to try it out yet
  - sethd 2y ago
    > Those features are often assumed, but are NOT present in the Vision Pro. Yes they are. Source: I develop for the device.
    - eastbound 2y ago
      Ok. Well that’s possibly under NDA, because in the Apple Store demo they say it’s impossible. But in any case: Several browsers isn’t several apps. It’s really not like having several computers screens around you.
      - axoltl 2y ago
        Are you using the Vision Pro, or are you relying on 3rd party information? I use the Vision Pro every day and I have several apps open at the same constantly. That said, it is currently only one macOS screen and macOS apps don't bridge. This isn't (to me!) a huge limitation as the applications I might put on a second monitor I simply run natively. So macOS has Xcode full-screened, and I have the relevant documentation website up in a native Safari screen (to my right), YouTube (Juno app) floating above the macOS screen, and the Music app on my left.
ClassyJacket 2y ago
Metaverse isn't VR. Meta in particular just happens to be integrating them since they make both.
sealeck 2y ago
They haven't marketed it as "metaverse" to try to please investors, it's something they've been working on for years and have now got a working initial version they've released.
- ffsm8 2y ago
  For the record: neither has Meta/Facebook. Their stock crashed hard after they pivoted to focus on the metaverse. It has since more then recovered - but saying that Meta marketed their VR to please investors is kinda silly considering how Mark Zuckerberg keeps doubling down on this investment to date - despite how massively the stock crashed.
threeseed 2y ago
Metaverse means the Ready Player One / Horizon Worlds social experience where everyone is an avatar in a shared virtual world all able to interact with each other. Apple hasn't just not implemented this they've made it impossible for developers to as well. Because only Apple can access the sensors needed to create the 3D avatar and only Apple is allowed access to this avatar i.e. it is restricted to SharePlay with your friends.
hu3 2y ago
The knee-jerk replies you're getting are hilarious. The reality distortion field is as strong as ver. You see, because it's Apple, it can't be a bet in virtual reality with a bad connotation (metaverse). To some, Apple can do no wrong nor do they make mistakes. If they invest (and fail) in VR it was from a good angle, not purely for profit (just like Meta). But seriously now, you can bet your left kidney that if Apple ever manages to make AR/VR work they will try to milk every penny and dime from the gullible while pretending that "it's good for you" like they do with their broken walled gardens. /rant
- AnonHP 2y ago
  Apple has been talking more about AR and discounting VR (like Meta’s grocery shopping and other “metaverse”) for many years now. Past keynote addresses as well as interviews with Tim Cook show that Apple didn’t consider VR alone as a game changer. So far, it looks like Meta changed its view from VR-only and got into AR (with the new glasses). Apple is still pushing AR (with some VR). Will Apple change its mind? Perhaps. That’s a good thing for companies to do in the face of new evidence/reception from the market.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    Meta was in AR R&D before Apple. Not sure where you’re getting the impression they pivoted. They’ve always wanted to do AR but the tech isn’t there (that’s why they announced the Orion internal prototype but still don’t have a product).
dagmx 2y ago
The “metaverse” isn’t tied to AR/VR. The metaverse , in most common definitions, refers to a virtual world and ecosystem as an alternate for the real one. See Ready Player One. Second life is a metaverse platform in essence. But isn’t VR. Fortnite is a metaverse but isn’t VR. Their programming language is even called Verse. The Quest itself isn’t a metaverse product BUT Horizon Worlds (not The confusingly named HorizonOS) is. You can participate in Horizon without a headset. Apple has no metaverse product. There might be metaverse products on Apple devices but that’s no different than an iPhone or Mac playing the things I mentioned above. There is almost no definition of metaverse that includes augmented reality.
- leptons 2y ago
  >Second life is a metaverse platform in essence. But isn’t VR. Second Life can and has been used with a VR headset, so yeah, it is in essence VR. Whether or not it's a good experience doesn't matter, Second Life certainly can meet the requirement for "virtual reality", depending on your definition of "VR".
  - dagmx 2y ago
    There are VR mods for many games but nobody considers them VR games. But if we’re being pedantic, then “Second Life doesn’t require VR”. It predates mainstream VR headsets by a decade.
- kevindamm 2y ago
  should mention VRChat in that list too, imo
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

Topfi 2y ago

> metaverse What about the Apple Vision Pro?

mertbio 2y ago
In my opinion, Apple Vision Pro is a device that will eventually replace iPhone, iPad and Mac. See Meta’s Orion glasses. That’s the goal of the Vision Pro, not metaverse. It just needs some time, like 5-10 years.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  I hope so. But their marketing for the Pro focused a lot on trying to replace your Mac (neat) while at a cafe (a bit dystopian, so I'm ambivalent), and on the same kinds of conference calls Meta tried to push. I guess we'll see.
nkrisc 2y ago
What about it? VR != Metaverse. (FWIW I think both are way overhyped)
- Topfi 2y ago
  I see the two interlinked, similar to how modern day smartphones such as the iPhone with full web page support weren't called Web 2.0 devices, yet were integral in the proliferation and growth of Web 2.0 tech to what it is today. In the same vain, even if the highest end VR/AR device on the market isn't marketed with a "Metaverse" focus, it will be integral in whether such a thing succeeds or fails.

anileated 2y ago

I suspect Apple’s approach will depend on whether they see LLM integration as critical or not. If not (which I think is the way to go, a functional purpose-built accessible UI is always better than a chatbot, and generative fluff is best left to apps) then they will go for swappable LLM backends, bypassing any legal/geopolitical restrictions. Keeps eggs diversified in multiple baskets and offers negotiation leverage (and that if Apple doesn’t find a no-frills way to pass system-integrated LLM use costs onto end users). If yes, they will probably go full in-house. They can afford it.