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According to his recent interview on Primeagen, he argues that WPEngine operations incur high costs to his company, due to the millions of installations consumi

According to his recent interview on Primeagen, he argues that WPEngine operations incur high costs to his company, due to the millions of installations consuming resources from Wordpress.org. And despite being a very large player, they contribute nothing back to the ecosystem. He argues that they even illegally modified code attributions (stripe plugin) which diverts millions from Automattic. The fact that it took, apparently, so long for him to take some action can be interpreted in his favor, because he tolerated a lot along the years. Add the fact that they had somewhat good relations before WPEngine being taken over by private equity. So this is not about trademark, trademark is the best weapon he has to fight back against a very bad neighbor. And being the sole trademark holder, Automattic can enforce it arbitrarily, as it sees fit. Taking side with WPEngine I think is not only rationally baseless, but also immoral, since they put nothing and only take, which is in the very opposite of what Matt represents, whether or not you like Wordpress.

karmajunkie 2y ago
i think the point of TFA was that those allegations are a gross distortion of the record, and MM’s ultimate actions are grossly inappropriate and harm the community he is pretending to stand up for.
chuckadams 2y ago
> He argues that they even illegally modified code attributions (stripe plugin) which diverts millions from Automattic. Which turned out to be blatantly false, quelle surprise I'm currently asking @photomatt elsewhere what his plans are to help others lift the load from wp.org by way of supporting alternate plugin/theme repositories. I'll keep you posted.
- ydlr 2y ago
  Maybe banning wpengine customers from the official repo is exactly the push the community needs to create alternatives.
sjs382 2y ago
> he argues that WPEngine operations incur high costs to his company To the foundation? Ok, then work with them to create a mirror and share the load. Even publicly shamed them into doing so. Do what's good for the community and product rather than engaging in this embarrassing spat.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Atotalnoob 2y ago
Actually no, trademark is a “use it or lose it” state, waiting so long will not be in their favor
- mvkel 2y ago
  Exactly. Statute of limitations is a factor here
- nickff 2y ago
  Wordpress is using their trademark though… do you mean to say that you must enforce a trademark to keep it? That’s different, and a subject of some controversy; I’m not sure that it’s been decided conclusively. Please correct me if I’m wrong here (in any way).
  - mvkel 2y ago
    It's been decided conclusively, but it is also relatively rare in a practical sense. Trademark law requires the owner to protect their trademark to avoid dilution or genericide, which occurs when a trademark becomes so common it loses its distinctiveness (like what happened with "Aspirin" or "Escalator"). Not a lawyer, but talked about it at length with a trademark attorney when having to defend over the years. It was conveyed that if we aren't willing to legally defend a mark, we could potentially lose it.
    - nickff 2y ago
      Do you think WordPress is diluted? It definitely doesn’t seem to generically refer to blogging or website building software. It seems to me that even WP Engine isn’t diluting it, they’re hijacking it.
      - mvkel 2y ago
        Agreed, but that goes back to defensibility. WP Engine has been doing their thing since 2011 without a peep from Matt. He should have been issuing cease and desists, etc. back then.
caseysoftware 2y ago
> He argues that they even illegally modified code attributions (stripe plugin) which diverts millions from Automattic. From reviewing the code, this is not "attribution" in the sense of "here's who wrote this code" but specifically and literally an partner code.. aka an affiliate code or what we'd normally call "a setting" As GPL'd software, they cannot prevent people from modifying this code and - if they do - Automattic's only counter is to complain about it. Further, since it's a revenue-generating code, it should be disclosed in the README, etc of the plugin and changeable via the Admin. It doesn't appear either is true. Ref: https://github.com/woocommerce/woocommerce-gateway-stripe/pull/1554 https://github.com/woocommerce/woocommerce-gateway-stripe/pu...
- pilgrim0 2y ago
  So it’s not illegal, but nonetheless an insult. Considering the pressure and shaming campaign against Matt, I’d say this may be even worse.
  - caseysoftware 2y ago
    Changing a setting is not "an insult"

karmajunkie 2y ago

i think the point of TFA was that those allegations are a gross distortion of the record, and MM’s ultimate actions are grossly inappropriate and harm the community he is pretending to stand up for.

chuckadams 2y ago

> He argues that they even illegally modified code attributions (stripe plugin) which diverts millions from Automattic. Which turned out to be blatantly false, quelle surprise I'm currently asking @photomatt elsewhere what his plans are to help others lift the load from wp.org by way of supporting alternate plugin/theme repositories. I'll keep you posted.

ydlr 2y ago
Maybe banning wpengine customers from the official repo is exactly the push the community needs to create alternatives.

sjs382 2y ago

> he argues that WPEngine operations incur high costs to his company To the foundation? Ok, then work with them to create a mirror and share the load. Even publicly shamed them into doing so. Do what's good for the community and product rather than engaging in this embarrassing spat.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Atotalnoob 2y ago

Actually no, trademark is a “use it or lose it” state, waiting so long will not be in their favor

mvkel 2y ago
Exactly. Statute of limitations is a factor here
nickff 2y ago
Wordpress is using their trademark though… do you mean to say that you must enforce a trademark to keep it? That’s different, and a subject of some controversy; I’m not sure that it’s been decided conclusively. Please correct me if I’m wrong here (in any way).
- mvkel 2y ago
  It's been decided conclusively, but it is also relatively rare in a practical sense. Trademark law requires the owner to protect their trademark to avoid dilution or genericide, which occurs when a trademark becomes so common it loses its distinctiveness (like what happened with "Aspirin" or "Escalator"). Not a lawyer, but talked about it at length with a trademark attorney when having to defend over the years. It was conveyed that if we aren't willing to legally defend a mark, we could potentially lose it.
  - nickff 2y ago
    Do you think WordPress is diluted? It definitely doesn’t seem to generically refer to blogging or website building software. It seems to me that even WP Engine isn’t diluting it, they’re hijacking it.
    - mvkel 2y ago
      Agreed, but that goes back to defensibility. WP Engine has been doing their thing since 2011 without a peep from Matt. He should have been issuing cease and desists, etc. back then.

caseysoftware 2y ago

> He argues that they even illegally modified code attributions (stripe plugin) which diverts millions from Automattic. From reviewing the code, this is not "attribution" in the sense of "here's who wrote this code" but specifically and literally an partner code.. aka an affiliate code or what we'd normally call "a setting" As GPL'd software, they cannot prevent people from modifying this code and - if they do - Automattic's only counter is to complain about it. Further, since it's a revenue-generating code, it should be disclosed in the README, etc of the plugin and changeable via the Admin. It doesn't appear either is true. Ref: https://github.com/woocommerce/woocommerce-gateway-stripe/pull/1554 https://github.com/woocommerce/woocommerce-gateway-stripe/pu...

pilgrim0 2y ago
So it’s not illegal, but nonetheless an insult. Considering the pressure and shaming campaign against Matt, I’d say this may be even worse.
- caseysoftware 2y ago
  Changing a setting is not "an insult"