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At any given moment we see these kinds comments on here. They all read like a burgeoning form of messianism: something is to come, and it will be terrible/glori

At any given moment we see these kinds comments on here. They all read like a burgeoning form of messianism: something is to come, and it will be terrible/glorious. Behind either the fear or the hope, is necessarily some utter faith that a certain kind of future will happen. And I think thats the most interesting thing. Because here is the thing, in this particular case you are afraid something inhuman will take control, will assert its meta-Darwinian power on humanity, leaving you and all of us totally at their whim. But how is this situation already not the case? Do look upon the earth right now and see something like benefits of autonomy or agency? Do you feel like you have power right now that will be taken away? Do you think the mechanism of statecraft and economy are somehow more "in our control" now then when the bad robot comes? Does it not, when you lay it out, all feel kind of religious? Like that its a source, driver of the various ways you are thinking and going about your life, underlayed by a kernel of conviction we can at this point only call faith (faith in Moores law, faith that the planet wont burn up before, faith that consciousness is the kind of thing that can be stuffed in a GPU). Perhaps just a strong family resemblance? You've got an eschatology, various scavenged philosophies of the self and community, a certain but unknowable future time... Just to say, take a page from Nietzsche. Don't be afraid of the gods, we killed them once, we can again!

mitthrowaway2 2y ago
It's not hard to find a religious analogy to anything, so that also shouldn't be seen as a particularly powerful argument. (Expressed at length here): https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/25/is-everything-a-religion/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/25/is-everything-a-religi...
- beepbooptheory 2y ago
  Thanks for the thoughtful reply! I am aware of and like that essay some, but I am not trying to be rhetorical here, and certainly not trying to flatten the situation to just be some Dawkins-esque asshole and tell everyone they are wrong. I am not saying "this is religion, you should be an atheist," I respect the force of this whole thing in people's minds too much. Rather, we should consider seriously how to navigate a future where this is all at play, even if its only in our heads and slide decks. I am not saying "lol, you believe in a god," I am genuinely saying, "kill your god without mercy, it is the only way you and all of us will find some happiness, inspiration, and love."
  - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
    Ah, I see, I definitely missed your point. Yeah, that's a very good thought. I can even picture this becoming another cultural crevasse, like climate change did, much to the detriment of nuanced discussion. Ah, well. If only killing god was so easy!
cubefox 2y ago
> Just to say, take a page from Nietzsche. Don't be afraid of the gods, we killed them once, we can again! It's more likely the superintelligent machine god(s) will kill us!
DirkH 2y ago
This is a nice sentiment and I'm sure some people will get more nights of good sleep thinking about it, but it has its limits. If you're enslaved and treated horrendously or don't have your basic needs met who cares? To quote George RR Martin: "In a heartbeat, a thousand voices took up the chant. King Joffrey and King Robb and King Stannis were forgotten, and King Bread ruled alone. 'Bread.' They clamputed. 'Bread, bread!' " Replace Joffrey, Robb and Stannis with whatever lofty philosophical ideas you might have to make people feel better about their disempowerment. They won't care.
- beepbooptheory 2y ago
  Whether you are talking about the disempowerment we or some of us already experience, or are more on the page of thinking about some future cataclysm, I think I'm generally with you here. "History does not walk on its head," and all that. The GRRM quote is an interesting choice here though. It implies that what is most important is dynamic. First Joffrey et al, now bread. But one could go even farther in this line: ideas, ideology, and, in GoT's case, those who peddle them can only ever form ideas within their context. Philosopher's are no more than fancy pundits, telling people what they want to here, or even sustaining a structural status quo that is otherwise not in their control. In a funny paradoxical way, there are certainly a lot of philosophers who would agree with something like this picture. And just honestly, yes, maybe killing god is killing the philosopher too. I don't think Nietzsche would disagree at least...

mitthrowaway2 2y ago

It's not hard to find a religious analogy to anything, so that also shouldn't be seen as a particularly powerful argument. (Expressed at length here): https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/25/is-everything-a-religion/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/25/is-everything-a-religi...

beepbooptheory 2y ago
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! I am aware of and like that essay some, but I am not trying to be rhetorical here, and certainly not trying to flatten the situation to just be some Dawkins-esque asshole and tell everyone they are wrong. I am not saying "this is religion, you should be an atheist," I respect the force of this whole thing in people's minds too much. Rather, we should consider seriously how to navigate a future where this is all at play, even if its only in our heads and slide decks. I am not saying "lol, you believe in a god," I am genuinely saying, "kill your god without mercy, it is the only way you and all of us will find some happiness, inspiration, and love."
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  Ah, I see, I definitely missed your point. Yeah, that's a very good thought. I can even picture this becoming another cultural crevasse, like climate change did, much to the detriment of nuanced discussion. Ah, well. If only killing god was so easy!

cubefox 2y ago

> Just to say, take a page from Nietzsche. Don't be afraid of the gods, we killed them once, we can again! It's more likely the superintelligent machine god(s) will kill us!

DirkH 2y ago

This is a nice sentiment and I'm sure some people will get more nights of good sleep thinking about it, but it has its limits. If you're enslaved and treated horrendously or don't have your basic needs met who cares? To quote George RR Martin: "In a heartbeat, a thousand voices took up the chant. King Joffrey and King Robb and King Stannis were forgotten, and King Bread ruled alone. 'Bread.' They clamputed. 'Bread, bread!' " Replace Joffrey, Robb and Stannis with whatever lofty philosophical ideas you might have to make people feel better about their disempowerment. They won't care.

beepbooptheory 2y ago
Whether you are talking about the disempowerment we or some of us already experience, or are more on the page of thinking about some future cataclysm, I think I'm generally with you here. "History does not walk on its head," and all that. The GRRM quote is an interesting choice here though. It implies that what is most important is dynamic. First Joffrey et al, now bread. But one could go even farther in this line: ideas, ideology, and, in GoT's case, those who peddle them can only ever form ideas within their context. Philosopher's are no more than fancy pundits, telling people what they want to here, or even sustaining a structural status quo that is otherwise not in their control. In a funny paradoxical way, there are certainly a lot of philosophers who would agree with something like this picture. And just honestly, yes, maybe killing god is killing the philosopher too. I don't think Nietzsche would disagree at least...