6 ms·

Argentina Scrapped Its Rent Controls. Now the Market Is Thriving

29 points by voisin 2y ago

darthrupert 2y ago
Milei is doing pretty great things in Argentina. Their present might not be great, but their future could be.
- loloquwowndueo 2y ago
  Tell us more about all the great things he’s doing.
  - darthrupert 2y ago
    Sure. Here's how he has made it a practical possibility that Argentina might rise economically: https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-rate-mom https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-rate-mom And in case you were wondering: yes, he was inaugurated at the top of the inflation rate, when they had a hyperinflation brewing up. 5 months later, inflation is well under control. Austerity is certainly painful for the people who are affected (which is not even close to being all the people), but the culprit is not the one who is doing the austerity, but the ones who screwed up the economy in such a drastic way that it has to be done. Unfortunately, he has only 3 years to go. That might not be long enough for people to realize all the good he will have done by then.
    - loloquwowndueo 2y ago
      So he’s improved macroeconomic indicators which are in no way a predictor of how things are for people in the streets using policies which have failed long-term in other countries to which they have been applied. Got it. The time he has left is not a problem though - if these policies and the chainsaw are indeed the panacea they purport to be, I’m sure people will elect Milei’s anointed successor by a landslide in the understanding that they’d continue with the same policies.
      - darthrupert 2y ago
        > I’m sure people will elect Milei’s anointed successor by a landslide in the understanding that they’d continue with the same policies. Your abundance of faith in the people is uplifting, but I'm a bit more sceptical. I've seen various peoples around this planet do the same mistake: 1) things go bad, 2) people vote in those who can fix it, 3) things are fixed, 4) people vote the other guys again, 5) goto 1 Then again, it was (mostly) the same argentinian people who voted him in in the first place, so perhaps they can do it.
        loloquwowndueo 2y ago
        I was being sarcastic :) in reality I think he’ll be voted out at the earliest opportunity if social protests don’t topple him before then (it happened before - remember De La Rúa?)
- nullindividual 2y ago
  > Argentina’s poverty levels hit 57% of population, a 20-year high in January, study finds https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-stud... > Winter deepens misery for Argentina's poor following Milei's financial cuts https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/winter-deepens-misery-argentinas-poor-following-mileis-financial-cuts-2024-06-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/winter-deepens-misery... Yeah, real "great". As long as you don't care about your fellow humans.
  - dilyevsky 2y ago
    57% sounds really bad until you read the article and see that it never went below 40 over last 5 years and last quarter is already back at 49% . Also this gem > "Since this government came to power, jobs have dropped away. We work twice as hard for less and we have to keep going," said Casal, who has 14 children and 42 grandchildren
    - Daishiman 2y ago
      Nobody cares about baity articles. There has been an absolute massive drop in standard of living and the government continues to artificially intervene in the exchange market. Real cost of living has gone up by 1/3 for the middle class at the least. Nobody who lives here will tell you anything has gotten better in this time. I have never in my entire life seen a team of complete dimwits at the helm of this country, regardless of ideology.
      - maxglute 2y ago
        Yeah, when a meme economy (i.e. Advanced/Developing/Japan/Argentina) going through huge change, sometimes number stop being useful. Sometimes you just need to see what it's like on the ground, i.e. selling morsels of prepackaged food. People can argue correction neccessary, but this level? https://www.tiktok.com/@metatktk/video/7411728372771900677 https://www.tiktok.com/@metatktk/video/7411728372771900677
- Daishiman 2y ago
  -14% consumer purchases across the board over last years. -25% in medicine purchases since the beginning of the year. Largest drop in meat consumption ever recorded in the last 50 years. Mass exodus of scientists due to the complete defunding of state research in critical areas. One of the largest forest fires going on with the national government not providing any assistance, something that no historical precedent, because the president doesn't believe in the state doing anything about it.
- wasteduniverse 2y ago
  [dead]
MisterDizzy 2y ago
This should be a bigger story, but rent control is one of the higher classes' compassionate-chic opinions that are all the rage right now.
- atemerev 2y ago
  The real reason the rich support rent controls is that these will not undervalue their existing property.
liquidpele 2y ago
* says landlords
- sumtechguy 2y ago
  The theory is rent control tends to reduce the desire for building more units. Not unfounded as who would build more and you ability to move with the market is hindered. Thus creating in a weird way more scarcity. If there is one that can drive prices up very nicely, its scarcity.
  - Detrytus 2y ago
    Not only that, it also creates an incentive for renters to hold on to units they do not need anymore, because if they forego the lease then the next renter will get much higher rent (and so will they, at their new place). So they keep it, just in case.
- tripplyons 2y ago
  I think most economists would agree
bell-cot 2y ago
2 days ago, 5 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41636731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41636731
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] Some more discussion earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41659220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41659220
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
legitster 2y ago
It should be noted that the rent control laws in particular were pretty egregious. Mandatory 3 year terms. And inflation was so high that landlords had to set insane numbers to justify the contracts. I suspect that what you saw was a lot of "informal" housing inventory that was being kept off-market was put on the market for the first time. I wouldn't expect this to be stable in the long run. This is a more efficient market now, and if it's cheaper and easier to find housing in the city... that's going to bring more people to the city.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

29 points by voisin 2y ago

darthrupert 2y ago

Milei is doing pretty great things in Argentina. Their present might not be great, but their future could be.

loloquwowndueo 2y ago
Tell us more about all the great things he’s doing.
- darthrupert 2y ago
  Sure. Here's how he has made it a practical possibility that Argentina might rise economically: https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-rate-mom https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-rate-mom And in case you were wondering: yes, he was inaugurated at the top of the inflation rate, when they had a hyperinflation brewing up. 5 months later, inflation is well under control. Austerity is certainly painful for the people who are affected (which is not even close to being all the people), but the culprit is not the one who is doing the austerity, but the ones who screwed up the economy in such a drastic way that it has to be done. Unfortunately, he has only 3 years to go. That might not be long enough for people to realize all the good he will have done by then.
  - loloquwowndueo 2y ago
    So he’s improved macroeconomic indicators which are in no way a predictor of how things are for people in the streets using policies which have failed long-term in other countries to which they have been applied. Got it. The time he has left is not a problem though - if these policies and the chainsaw are indeed the panacea they purport to be, I’m sure people will elect Milei’s anointed successor by a landslide in the understanding that they’d continue with the same policies.
    - darthrupert 2y ago
      > I’m sure people will elect Milei’s anointed successor by a landslide in the understanding that they’d continue with the same policies. Your abundance of faith in the people is uplifting, but I'm a bit more sceptical. I've seen various peoples around this planet do the same mistake: 1) things go bad, 2) people vote in those who can fix it, 3) things are fixed, 4) people vote the other guys again, 5) goto 1 Then again, it was (mostly) the same argentinian people who voted him in in the first place, so perhaps they can do it.
      - loloquwowndueo 2y ago
        I was being sarcastic :) in reality I think he’ll be voted out at the earliest opportunity if social protests don’t topple him before then (it happened before - remember De La Rúa?)
nullindividual 2y ago
> Argentina’s poverty levels hit 57% of population, a 20-year high in January, study finds https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-stud... > Winter deepens misery for Argentina's poor following Milei's financial cuts https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/winter-deepens-misery-argentinas-poor-following-mileis-financial-cuts-2024-06-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/winter-deepens-misery... Yeah, real "great". As long as you don't care about your fellow humans.
- dilyevsky 2y ago
  57% sounds really bad until you read the article and see that it never went below 40 over last 5 years and last quarter is already back at 49% . Also this gem > "Since this government came to power, jobs have dropped away. We work twice as hard for less and we have to keep going," said Casal, who has 14 children and 42 grandchildren
  - Daishiman 2y ago
    Nobody cares about baity articles. There has been an absolute massive drop in standard of living and the government continues to artificially intervene in the exchange market. Real cost of living has gone up by 1/3 for the middle class at the least. Nobody who lives here will tell you anything has gotten better in this time. I have never in my entire life seen a team of complete dimwits at the helm of this country, regardless of ideology.
    - maxglute 2y ago
      Yeah, when a meme economy (i.e. Advanced/Developing/Japan/Argentina) going through huge change, sometimes number stop being useful. Sometimes you just need to see what it's like on the ground, i.e. selling morsels of prepackaged food. People can argue correction neccessary, but this level? https://www.tiktok.com/@metatktk/video/7411728372771900677 https://www.tiktok.com/@metatktk/video/7411728372771900677
Daishiman 2y ago
-14% consumer purchases across the board over last years. -25% in medicine purchases since the beginning of the year. Largest drop in meat consumption ever recorded in the last 50 years. Mass exodus of scientists due to the complete defunding of state research in critical areas. One of the largest forest fires going on with the national government not providing any assistance, something that no historical precedent, because the president doesn't believe in the state doing anything about it.
wasteduniverse 2y ago
[dead]

MisterDizzy 2y ago

This should be a bigger story, but rent control is one of the higher classes' compassionate-chic opinions that are all the rage right now.

atemerev 2y ago
The real reason the rich support rent controls is that these will not undervalue their existing property.

liquidpele 2y ago

* says landlords

sumtechguy 2y ago
The theory is rent control tends to reduce the desire for building more units. Not unfounded as who would build more and you ability to move with the market is hindered. Thus creating in a weird way more scarcity. If there is one that can drive prices up very nicely, its scarcity.
- Detrytus 2y ago
  Not only that, it also creates an incentive for renters to hold on to units they do not need anymore, because if they forego the lease then the next renter will get much higher rent (and so will they, at their new place). So they keep it, just in case.
tripplyons 2y ago
I think most economists would agree

bell-cot 2y ago

2 days ago, 5 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41636731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41636731

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] Some more discussion earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41659220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41659220

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

legitster 2y ago

It should be noted that the rent control laws in particular were pretty egregious. Mandatory 3 year terms. And inflation was so high that landlords had to set insane numbers to justify the contracts. I suspect that what you saw was a lot of "informal" housing inventory that was being kept off-market was put on the market for the first time. I wouldn't expect this to be stable in the long run. This is a more efficient market now, and if it's cheaper and easier to find housing in the city... that's going to bring more people to the city.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]