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Automatic Content Recognition Tracking in Smart TVs
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- cebert 2y agoAre there any brands that are known for respecting privacy more than others?
- quink 2y agoAnime doesn't come in 4K, I have no real reason not to get an early 2010s TV before all this garbage, Sony, LG, Samsung, etc. All for about 100 USD, 200 USD for near enough whatever screen size I'd want for a device right at the bottom of the bathtub curve. Pair with a Chromecast with Google TV or a PC for best results.
- jwr 2y ago> Pair with a Chromecast with Google TV How does that square with "privacy"? Google is an adtech company that makes money on tracking our usage patterns, Chromecast requires logging in, there is no "privacy" around these devices at all.
- dewey 2y ago> Pair with a Chromecast with Google TV or a PC for best results. If you already want an off the shelf solution at least get an Apple TV instead of a Google product? At least it’s not an advertising company then.
- rrdharan 2y agohttps://618media.com/en/blog/revenue-projections-for-apple-search-ads/ https://618media.com/en/blog/revenue-projections-for-apple-s...
- dewey 2y agoThat’s a very different thing. These are basically sponsored placements in App Store search results based on keywords and not targeted ads based on tracking or cookies. (That’s also why they are often very bad and not relevant, a common complaint from app developers)
- Nzen 2y agoWhen this conversation has come up in the past, I've seen people recommend [0] business displays [1]. They are more expensive, of course, given that they are not subsidized by advertising. [0] ex https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24666968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24666968 [1] https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tvs/commercial-tvs/pcmcat1601999032843.c?id=pcmcat1601999032843 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tvs/commercial-tvs/pcmcat160199...
- meowster 2y agoThere are dumb TVs that are cheaper than business displays. Business Displays are not more expensive due to a lack of subsidization, they are expensive because they are built to be more durable (left on longer or continuously) and because businesses generally have a larger budget than consumers.
- ls612 2y agoAny brand works if you hook it up to an Apple TV and don't allow the TV itself to connect to the internet (outside of first time setup for software updates I guess).
- dang 2y agoUrl changed from https://www.feistyduck.com/newsletter/issue_117_smart_tvs_are_watching_you https://www.feistyduck.com/newsletter/issue_117_smart_tvs_ar..., which points to this.
- kibwen 2y agoA reminder that the existence of the advertising industry is a tax that drives up the cost of everything that you buy, because every dollar spent on advertising is a dollar that does not actually improve the product in any way, and yet must be recouped by increasing the price of the product. So in addition to the complete destruction of personal privacy and the normalization of the panopticon, it's also making you materially poorer. But hey, at least ads are more relevant, sorta, almost, sometimes!
- ethbr1 2y agoRunning targeted advertising on devices allows manufacturers to price devices lower by recouping lost sale revenue from the advertising stream. In other words, an advertising dollar doesn't disappear: it's paid to someone.
- czl 2y ago> an advertising dollar doesn't disappear: it's paid to someone. Window breaking gangs could make a similar same claim about their activity boosting GDP might they not? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
- pests 2y agoSomeone used this window breaking analogy recently here on HN - I can't remember why it came up or who said it, but is this a common framing? I do remember it being about how a window maker paying people to break windows not being a productive contribution to GDP. Just thought it was curious seeing it again.
- czl 2y ago> but is this a common framing? Yes a common misconception about economics so much so it has a Wikipedia page to explain it.
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- navaed01 2y agoI’ve worked extensively with ACR technology in an applied setting. Happy to answer any questions
- matheusmoreira 2y agoHow do I disable it and make sure it stays disabled?
- buryat 2y agohow much this data can sell for?
- avidiax 2y agoWhat types of titles can ACR match to? Can it do foreign titles? Adult titles? Can it OCR onscreen text, e.g. a computer desktop? Can it identify video conferences? Why do advertisers care what I watch? If I watch PBS mystery theater do I get ads for rich people?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dewey 2y ago> Why do advertisers care what I watch? If I watch PBS mystery theater do I get ads for rich people? Thats precisely what’s happening and it’s nothing new. The only difference here is that the TV is the input vs your browsing habits.
- card_zero 2y agoI read somewhere - I think in a previous thread, about the New Scientist version of this story, where somebody posted text from a site selling ACR services - that the real interest lies in empirical measurement of what adverts you're seeing, and the context that you see them in is of only secondary interest. I guess the ads you see could be matched up to what you buy. It's an "are our adverts working on this person?" question (and thus "can we show that our advertising service is worth buying"), more than a question of "what advert do we send this person next?"
- moandcompany 2y agoAside from not having one of these devices at all, or disconnecting it from internet access, if you have one and want to opt-out of ACR (Automatic Content Recognition), you need to make sure that you did not select to 'opt-in' to "personalization" type features on the device. ACR opt-ins are not presented to end-users with a clear statement of what the opt-in means or what will happen with your data from your device and are often presented as turning on "personalization" (generally, for advertising purposes). The various TV or tv-related device manufacturers use different names for "ACR," so you'll need to decipher what your manufacturer calls this to disable the feature. Consumer Reports has a useful guide covering multiple brands on how to turn off ACR: https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smart-tv-snooping-features-a4840102036/ https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics/privacy/how-to-t... If you find that your device has already been opted-in, you can disable the selection, and submit a request to have your device's information removed in some jurisdictions. You can also select to have your device's identifier id (e.g. "PSID" etc) reset from the device before performing a full factory/configuration reset of the device and setting it up again. If you fully reset the device, you'll want to watch out for the ways the manufacturer will try to get you to opt-in during the setup process. Many people have ACR-turned on without knowing. Adding a few more opt-out guides: https://www.tomsguide.com/how-to/stop-your-snooping-smart-tv-how-to-turn-off-data-collection-for-every-brand https://www.tomsguide.com/how-to/stop-your-snooping-smart-tv... https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/how-to-disable-acr-and-greatly-reduce-ads-on-every-tv-model-and-why-you-should/ https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/how-to-disable-acr-and... It's also worth firewalling, or at least using dns-based blocking, any "smart tv" type devices on your network. Some of them even do periodic scans of your network and send that information to the manufacturer when they "phone home."
- jwr 2y agoOn an LG TV, ACR tracking is deceptively called "Live Plus", and it is on by default. I was very careful not to opt in to anything, but they it was still on when I discovered it. Also, you apparently do not own your homescreen, it's their property to do with as they wish.
- LegitShady 2y agoI was looking at getting a TV and they all have garbage "smart" features I don't want. Someone told me to get a sceptre tv without any of that but I can't find them in my country and their actual panels don't seem that great. So all thats left is looking for commercial panels but a lot of those have built in content management systems now too.
- bschwindHN 2y agoSo much engineering effort wasted with zero benefit to society.
- mway 2y agoUnfortunately, benefit to society seems to very rarely be the goal anymore. Cynically, as time goes on, it feels more and more as though we exist to be maximally extracted from, rather than to enjoy any intended benefit (where the benefit is not a happy byproduct that exists only because it is massively subsidized by aforementioned extraction).
- gary_0 2y ago> Unfortunately, benefit to society seems to very rarely be the goal anymore. If it ever was. Most of these businesses are still owned by the same people--the Sam Altmans, the Brins and Pages, the Elon Musks, the Steve Huffmans--who started out with the "not in it for the money" and "do no evil" rhetoric, and now their actions show that all that was just a lie from the start.
- appendix-rock 2y ago> just a lie from the start Ugh. Such a naive and simplistic take. People change, for better and worse. And the figureheads that unaccountable nerds love to bash here are sometimes just that, figureheads.
- Eisenstein 2y agoAnd apologists are sometimes just that, too.
- exe34 2y agono, money seems to only change people for the worse. the rich ones who are good were good all along.
- OrigamiPastrami 2y ago
- bottom999mottob 2y agoSurveillance capitalism continues to crush people's privacy, and I don't think the incentive to collect personal data will ever go away. Seriously someone needs to give the big middle finger to Samsung and LG because I want my dumb TVs back.
- slothtrop 2y agoIt may happen. I think at present there is too little demand for comparatively expensive tvs that respect privacy. The tech is in a phase of diminishing returns, as televisions from over a decade ago still suit most people fine, and don't break that easily. Tech people were just turning off features they don't like (until, of course, that's no longer possible). But alongside the price-point, manufacturers are also playing a game of chicken expecting everyone to continue purchasing despite invasive features. At least among tech-oriented people it's possible that sales will slow down, but that might not matter enough for their bottom line to offer an alternative. There may be room for a competitor to try selling boutique tvs, but it's risky. "the market provides", but the demand needs to be strong enough.
- DylanDmitri 2y agoA 32" computer monitor is awful similar to a dumb TV from 20 years back. Projectors too.
- lifthrasiir 2y agoThat's concerning. To be clear, I once worked on a company that developed an audio-based ACR technology to be used in conjunction with a secondary device that users would turn on at their will. Anything more invasive would have been substantially challenging in legal aspects so that was the status quo more than 10 years ago. So it's new to me that not only ACR is somehow pervasive in "smart" devices but also they even don't care whether they are really being used as a television (which has no other interaction mechanism in principle, and ACR is not only for ads).
- submeta 2y agoOff topic: Anyone knows how a document like this is created? I find the layout very appealing. - In MS Word?
- KuzMenachem 2y agoLaTeX
- starky 2y agoThe typeface is Computer Modern which indicates they likely used LaTeX. https://www.latex-project.org/ https://www.latex-project.org/
- jwr 2y agoIf you have an LG TV, ACR tracking is ON BY DEFAULT and you need to turn it off manually. It is well hidden, in settings, "Additional Settings", "Live Plus" needs to be switched off. It is mind-boggling that there is no uproar over this. Of course, if the EU were to make a fuss, Americans would be all screaming "it's over-regulating!".
- burnerthrow008 2y agoNone of the major TV manufacturers is based in the US, so I guess we won't have to worry about the EU regulating ACR, will we? Apropos of nothing, what other country besides the US has a law that specifically prohibits giving a bribe to a foreign government?
- exe34 2y agothe UK
- swores 2y agoUK only allows bribes (sorry, I meant to write "freebies") for domestic politicians, not foreign ones. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/28/mps-have-declared-more-than-6m-in-freebies-since-2010-analysis-shows https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/28/mps-have-de...
- exe34 2y agodonations
- ben_w 2y agoNone of Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Microsoft, or Google are based in the EU; all have faced issues due to operating in the EU. (Off the top of my head: USB-C, GDPR, Digital Services Act, Schrems, and anti-trust fines respectively).
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- tabiv 2y agoYou'll take my 2010 Sony Bravia panel over my dead body.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y agolol, 2010 LCD with edge or a couple zone local dimming... Don't worry, no one is going to try and take your varying degrees of grey levels from you.
- yesssql 2y agoDoes this send screenshots when you're on HDMI? Wouldn't that be corporate espionage since most tech workers are from home now and lots use a small 4K TV for their PC?
- Eisenstein 2y agoYes. Also casts from phones and tablets. 100 times a second for LG and 2 times a second for Samsung, according to the paper.