4 ms·

Infra, services and trademarks. They are not part of the GPL license. Everyone is welcomed to use any GPL code as they see fit, as long as they are within their

Infra, services and trademarks. They are not part of the GPL license. Everyone is welcomed to use any GPL code as they see fit, as long as they are within their limits as outlined in the license. But this does not mean W.ORG has to keep providing these free services to you and your customers, and it does not mean you are free to use trademarks in a misleading way. Disclaimer: I work at Automattic.

mikeyinternews 2y ago
I've been a WPE customer for about 3 years and have never been confused by the "WP" in their name.
- seb1204 2y ago
  Would you agree that WPE automatically makes a mental connection to WordPress? I dare say this would not be the case if it was named Josh Mutton Engine JME
- trvr 2y ago
  It's not about WP in the company name. It's about loosely using the words "Wordpress" and "WooCommerce" all over their website in ways that violate trademarks.
  - graeme 2y ago
    Could you please explain in which way trademarks were violated? Nominative use is explicitly allowed according to long established caselaw. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use
    - trvr 2y ago
      I'm not a lawyer, but WP Engine is selling products on their website literally named "Core Wordpress". That seems like it might be a violation.
      - graeme 2y ago
        For there to be a violation there has to be a reasonable prospect of consumer confusion by the consumers in the target market. The page is labelled "Choose your WordPress Hosting plan" Someone who is in the market for Wordpress hosting is almost certainly aware they have Wordpress and that they need hosting for it. Wordpress is a nominative use to refer to the entity, and Core is an adjective which in context means central. Do you actually think there are meaningful numbers of people who have believed that WPEngine is actually wordpress itself? That would be the standard. Wordpress.com leads to much more confusion on a regular basis.
        trvr 2y ago
        "Do you actually think there are meaningful numbers of people who have believed that WPEngine is actually wordpress itself?" Yes. "Wordpress.com leads to much more confusion on a regular basis." Wordpress.com has a license to use the Wordpress trademark. I don't believe we should be comparing Wordpress.com to WP Engine here.
        graeme 2y ago
        Fair enough on wordpress.com. It still doesn't strike me as plausible that any reasonable person in a purchasing decision thinks WPengine is wordpress itself. I certainly haven't seen any such confusion online.
        samatman 2y ago
        I just found out today that WPEngine is not the same legal entity as WordPress. So yeah, from my perspective there's a real case for confusion of marks here. I have no opinion about the drama one way or the other, just providing a datum.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
subarctic 2y ago
I only know about this from the two hn threads I've read, but it seems like he could have at least announced this publicly a week in advance or so and given them a bit of time to self-host all this stuff before cutting off their access. Right now seems like he's trying to harm WPEngine by harming their customers and that doesn't make him look good.
evantbyrne 2y ago
I don't think it is at all reasonable to claim that the name of a GPL 2.0 project is off-limits. This license goes back to 2003 and the name is the first word in the license. It is displayed all over the software. The community is full of commercial and open-source tools that include variations of the name. Automattic is betraying the spirit of the license at best, and I would _hope_ flat-out wrong legally to weaponize the name.
sharphall 2y ago
Would it be a good or bad look for the Fedora project if they went after a popular and commercially ruthless hosting provider offering "Fedora Hosting" for trademark infringement, while cutting off repo and update access to that provider specifically, unless they paid up some % of revenue? Regardless of if Fedora was justified or not, it would totally destroy trust in the ecosystem and people would start to talk about seeking alternatives, which is exactly what is happening with WordPress.
csomar 2y ago
Then the registry URL has to become null and the user has to enter a registry of his choice when installing wordpress.

mikeyinternews 2y ago

I've been a WPE customer for about 3 years and have never been confused by the "WP" in their name.

seb1204 2y ago
Would you agree that WPE automatically makes a mental connection to WordPress? I dare say this would not be the case if it was named Josh Mutton Engine JME
trvr 2y ago
It's not about WP in the company name. It's about loosely using the words "Wordpress" and "WooCommerce" all over their website in ways that violate trademarks.
- graeme 2y ago
  Could you please explain in which way trademarks were violated? Nominative use is explicitly allowed according to long established caselaw. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use
  - trvr 2y ago
    I'm not a lawyer, but WP Engine is selling products on their website literally named "Core Wordpress". That seems like it might be a violation.
    - graeme 2y ago
      For there to be a violation there has to be a reasonable prospect of consumer confusion by the consumers in the target market. The page is labelled "Choose your WordPress Hosting plan" Someone who is in the market for Wordpress hosting is almost certainly aware they have Wordpress and that they need hosting for it. Wordpress is a nominative use to refer to the entity, and Core is an adjective which in context means central. Do you actually think there are meaningful numbers of people who have believed that WPEngine is actually wordpress itself? That would be the standard. Wordpress.com leads to much more confusion on a regular basis.
      - trvr 2y ago
        "Do you actually think there are meaningful numbers of people who have believed that WPEngine is actually wordpress itself?" Yes. "Wordpress.com leads to much more confusion on a regular basis." Wordpress.com has a license to use the Wordpress trademark. I don't believe we should be comparing Wordpress.com to WP Engine here.
        graeme 2y ago
        Fair enough on wordpress.com. It still doesn't strike me as plausible that any reasonable person in a purchasing decision thinks WPengine is wordpress itself. I certainly haven't seen any such confusion online.
      - samatman 2y ago
        I just found out today that WPEngine is not the same legal entity as WordPress. So yeah, from my perspective there's a real case for confusion of marks here. I have no opinion about the drama one way or the other, just providing a datum.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]

subarctic 2y ago

I only know about this from the two hn threads I've read, but it seems like he could have at least announced this publicly a week in advance or so and given them a bit of time to self-host all this stuff before cutting off their access. Right now seems like he's trying to harm WPEngine by harming their customers and that doesn't make him look good.

evantbyrne 2y ago

I don't think it is at all reasonable to claim that the name of a GPL 2.0 project is off-limits. This license goes back to 2003 and the name is the first word in the license. It is displayed all over the software. The community is full of commercial and open-source tools that include variations of the name. Automattic is betraying the spirit of the license at best, and I would _hope_ flat-out wrong legally to weaponize the name.

sharphall 2y ago

Would it be a good or bad look for the Fedora project if they went after a popular and commercially ruthless hosting provider offering "Fedora Hosting" for trademark infringement, while cutting off repo and update access to that provider specifically, unless they paid up some % of revenue? Regardless of if Fedora was justified or not, it would totally destroy trust in the ecosystem and people would start to talk about seeking alternatives, which is exactly what is happening with WordPress.

csomar 2y ago

Then the registry URL has to become null and the user has to enter a registry of his choice when installing wordpress.