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Decent hands on article from the verge with more info https://www.theverge.com/24253908/meta-orion-ar-glasses-demo-mark-zuckerberg-interview https://www.thever

Decent hands on article from the verge with more info https://www.theverge.com/24253908/meta-orion-ar-glasses-demo-mark-zuckerberg-interview https://www.theverge.com/24253908/meta-orion-ar-glasses-demo... Wireless compute puck. 70 degree FOV. Resolution high enough to read text. Wrist band detects hand gestures and will be used in another product.

prettymuchnoone 2y ago
the wristband reminds me of the Myo armband, this thing you could wear to control a computer did meta buy them out?
- dmarcos 2y ago
  Yes, they did https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-acquires-ctrl-labs-develop-wrist-worn-input-device/amp/ https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-acquires-ctrl-labs-develop... I had the first myoband sdk and didn’t work for me. I imagine tech is much improved now
  - asadm 2y ago
    Thalmic (makers of Myo, later renamed to North) was acq. by Google actually.
    - dmarcos 2y ago
      Ctrl-labs bought Myo band IP from North (formerly Thalmic) https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/ctrl-labs-scoops-up-myo-armband-tech-from-north/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/ctrl-labs-scoops-up-myo-ar...
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - PierceJoy 2y ago
      And funnily enough they were working on smart glasses when they were acquired by Google
- escapecharacter 2y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/23/20881032/facebook-ctrl-labs-acquisition-neural-interface-armband-ar-vr-deal https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/23/20881032/facebook-ctrl-la... Context: I was part of this acquisition, but am no longer at Meta.
- POiNTx 2y ago
  If the wristband works well, it'd be a very convenient gadget to wear if it can integrate with a bunch of devices like smart-lights, phones, tv etc...
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  For 1 billion frickin dollars
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
drewrv 2y ago
From using various VR systems, a hololens, and reading reviews of the vision pro I really feel like hand gestures are a bad way to interact with AR systems. They might work in a pinch (heh) but some sort of small controller that can act as a pointer and has a button or two is superior in every way. It's interesting that meta went through the effort of bundling an accessory but stuck with hand gestures anyway.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  I agree, and I also think that walking around to items positioned statically in space is a really dumb way to do embodied computing. I mean if an app is associated with your kitchen fridge or whatever fine, pin it to your kitchen fridge, but if I'm going to be enveloped in an omnidirectional high def display, I want a way to bring the windows to me, not have to move my body to different windows. Anyway, Logitech made an awesome little handheld keyboard for home theater PCs, called DiNovo Mini HTPC, I was able to pair it with Vision Pro. https://www.ebay.com/itm/226367904044?_skw=Logitech+DiNovo+Mini+HTPC https://www.ebay.com/itm/226367904044?_skw=Logitech+DiNovo+M...
  - drewrv 2y ago
    That’s a great little keyboard, it reminds me of early smartphone keyboards in a good way. I wonder if Apple decided against a controller in order to allow third party solutions to flourish . They can take their time and see what people gravitate towards.
  - cyanydeez 2y ago
    Most of these products arnted aimed at consumers, but industrial tech. While the critque is great for enthusiasts, it makes no sense for what this type of industrial use will occur.
    - nick3443 2y ago
      Hololens and Glass got relegated to industrial use. Pretty certain Meta would rather cross the chasm and get to everyday consumers, but the tech and use case doesn't cut it for that yet, which is why they aren't going to sell these until it's more of a home run. Seemed like they even had a subtle dig at Apple for pushing to get high end AR into the hands of consumers prematurely.
doctorhandshake 2y ago
The EMG wrist band is the most exciting part of this release, IMO. That strikes me as a great solve that pushes into software a lot of hard problems that were solved with hardware previously.
- throwitaway1123 2y ago
  That was the part that stood out to me as well after watching The Verge's video: https://youtu.be/mpKKcqWnTus?t=98 https://youtu.be/mpKKcqWnTus?t=98 The Vision Pro uses optical sensors for hand tracking, so if your hands aren't visible to the device it obviously can't track them. Electromyography solves that problem, and I could imagine Apple integrating some variant of this in a future Apple Watch, and just falling back to optical sensors if you don't own one.
  - grahamj 2y ago
    The Watch already supports a pinch gesture so I'm surprised they're not already using it for VP, at least as a backup for occlusion.
    - throwitaway1123 2y ago
      Yeah it is surprising because it seems like a relatively obvious solution. The Watch doesn't use electromyography though [1], it looks like it currently uses "the accelerometer, gyroscope, and optical heart sensor with a new machine learning algorithm." I wonder how accurate that is compared to the EMG solution Meta is using. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/10/apple-watch-double-tap-gesture-now-available-with-watchos-10-1/#:~:text=twice%20as%20fast.-,The%20Neural%20Engine%20processes,Apple%20Watch%20Ultra%202.,-Pause%20playback%20of https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/10/apple-watch-double-ta...
- Tepix 2y ago
  What? From my PoV (ha!), the 70° FoV is a breakthrough that was sorely needed.
pazimzadeh 2y ago
This is very interesting. The company that looks most poised to capitalize on a product like this is still Apple. Wireless compute puck = iPhone Wrist band = Apple watch (although most people wear it on their non-dominant hand) From the videos it looks like Meta adopted Apple's UI of a horizontal handle bar underneath a window for interacting with a piece of content. Considering that the 100 degree field of view of the Apple Vision Pro is already noticeable, 70 degrees seems really limiting.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  > The company that looks most poised to capitalize on a product like this is still Apple. It's also possible they don't ever put out an offering in this form factor. They never released a dual screen phone. They never released a touchscreen laptop. This might be one of those things they just don't touch. Also, I wonder if they'll have a tough time filling the form factor with stuff to do. The lack of apps was a huge reason the APV flopped, while Meta has a large headstart in making it possible for devs to build for their device, even those without exp in spatial dev / game dev / etc.
  - pazimzadeh 2y ago
    > It's also possible they don't ever put out an offering in this form factor Couldn't disagree more, if it was possible to bet on this I would bet all my money that they do release something like this. It'll probably be called the Vision Air or something. I don't remember which article it was, but there are reports that Tim Cook only agreed to fund and ship the Vision Pro because he was told that the same tech will be put into glasses in a few years.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      I'll gladly take that bet. Apple is known to be very conservative with hardware form factors, and the AVP was a huge risk for them, and a departure from their previous ways of working that they'll be reluctant to return to after its failure.
stevage 2y ago
Way more informative and interesting than the press release.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
thomastjeffery 2y ago
> Micro LED Projectors Is that true? Last time I was reading about holographic lenses, it was a flat white laser backlight fed into a waveguide (the hologram part), and filtered through an LCD. An actual LED projector would have darker darks, but I would much rather have a higher resolution.. It's definitely helpful to hear about the waveguide production problems. Obviously, that's going to be the greatest hurdle; after all, they are manufacturing a completely unique object with very small feature sizes.

prettymuchnoone 2y ago

the wristband reminds me of the Myo armband, this thing you could wear to control a computer did meta buy them out?

dmarcos 2y ago
Yes, they did https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-acquires-ctrl-labs-develop-wrist-worn-input-device/amp/ https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-acquires-ctrl-labs-develop... I had the first myoband sdk and didn’t work for me. I imagine tech is much improved now
- asadm 2y ago
  Thalmic (makers of Myo, later renamed to North) was acq. by Google actually.
  - dmarcos 2y ago
    Ctrl-labs bought Myo band IP from North (formerly Thalmic) https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/ctrl-labs-scoops-up-myo-armband-tech-from-north/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/ctrl-labs-scoops-up-myo-ar...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - PierceJoy 2y ago
    And funnily enough they were working on smart glasses when they were acquired by Google
escapecharacter 2y ago
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/23/20881032/facebook-ctrl-labs-acquisition-neural-interface-armband-ar-vr-deal https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/23/20881032/facebook-ctrl-la... Context: I was part of this acquisition, but am no longer at Meta.
POiNTx 2y ago
If the wristband works well, it'd be a very convenient gadget to wear if it can integrate with a bunch of devices like smart-lights, phones, tv etc...
LarsDu88 2y ago
For 1 billion frickin dollars
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

drewrv 2y ago

From using various VR systems, a hololens, and reading reviews of the vision pro I really feel like hand gestures are a bad way to interact with AR systems. They might work in a pinch (heh) but some sort of small controller that can act as a pointer and has a button or two is superior in every way. It's interesting that meta went through the effort of bundling an accessory but stuck with hand gestures anyway.

jazzyjackson 2y ago
I agree, and I also think that walking around to items positioned statically in space is a really dumb way to do embodied computing. I mean if an app is associated with your kitchen fridge or whatever fine, pin it to your kitchen fridge, but if I'm going to be enveloped in an omnidirectional high def display, I want a way to bring the windows to me, not have to move my body to different windows. Anyway, Logitech made an awesome little handheld keyboard for home theater PCs, called DiNovo Mini HTPC, I was able to pair it with Vision Pro. https://www.ebay.com/itm/226367904044?_skw=Logitech+DiNovo+Mini+HTPC https://www.ebay.com/itm/226367904044?_skw=Logitech+DiNovo+M...
- drewrv 2y ago
  That’s a great little keyboard, it reminds me of early smartphone keyboards in a good way. I wonder if Apple decided against a controller in order to allow third party solutions to flourish . They can take their time and see what people gravitate towards.
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  Most of these products arnted aimed at consumers, but industrial tech. While the critque is great for enthusiasts, it makes no sense for what this type of industrial use will occur.
  - nick3443 2y ago
    Hololens and Glass got relegated to industrial use. Pretty certain Meta would rather cross the chasm and get to everyday consumers, but the tech and use case doesn't cut it for that yet, which is why they aren't going to sell these until it's more of a home run. Seemed like they even had a subtle dig at Apple for pushing to get high end AR into the hands of consumers prematurely.

doctorhandshake 2y ago

The EMG wrist band is the most exciting part of this release, IMO. That strikes me as a great solve that pushes into software a lot of hard problems that were solved with hardware previously.

throwitaway1123 2y ago
That was the part that stood out to me as well after watching The Verge's video: https://youtu.be/mpKKcqWnTus?t=98 https://youtu.be/mpKKcqWnTus?t=98 The Vision Pro uses optical sensors for hand tracking, so if your hands aren't visible to the device it obviously can't track them. Electromyography solves that problem, and I could imagine Apple integrating some variant of this in a future Apple Watch, and just falling back to optical sensors if you don't own one.
- grahamj 2y ago
  The Watch already supports a pinch gesture so I'm surprised they're not already using it for VP, at least as a backup for occlusion.
  - throwitaway1123 2y ago
    Yeah it is surprising because it seems like a relatively obvious solution. The Watch doesn't use electromyography though [1], it looks like it currently uses "the accelerometer, gyroscope, and optical heart sensor with a new machine learning algorithm." I wonder how accurate that is compared to the EMG solution Meta is using. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/10/apple-watch-double-tap-gesture-now-available-with-watchos-10-1/#:~:text=twice%20as%20fast.-,The%20Neural%20Engine%20processes,Apple%20Watch%20Ultra%202.,-Pause%20playback%20of https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/10/apple-watch-double-ta...
Tepix 2y ago
What? From my PoV (ha!), the 70° FoV is a breakthrough that was sorely needed.

pazimzadeh 2y ago

This is very interesting. The company that looks most poised to capitalize on a product like this is still Apple. Wireless compute puck = iPhone Wrist band = Apple watch (although most people wear it on their non-dominant hand) From the videos it looks like Meta adopted Apple's UI of a horizontal handle bar underneath a window for interacting with a piece of content. Considering that the 100 degree field of view of the Apple Vision Pro is already noticeable, 70 degrees seems really limiting.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
> The company that looks most poised to capitalize on a product like this is still Apple. It's also possible they don't ever put out an offering in this form factor. They never released a dual screen phone. They never released a touchscreen laptop. This might be one of those things they just don't touch. Also, I wonder if they'll have a tough time filling the form factor with stuff to do. The lack of apps was a huge reason the APV flopped, while Meta has a large headstart in making it possible for devs to build for their device, even those without exp in spatial dev / game dev / etc.
- pazimzadeh 2y ago
  > It's also possible they don't ever put out an offering in this form factor Couldn't disagree more, if it was possible to bet on this I would bet all my money that they do release something like this. It'll probably be called the Vision Air or something. I don't remember which article it was, but there are reports that Tim Cook only agreed to fund and ship the Vision Pro because he was told that the same tech will be put into glasses in a few years.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    I'll gladly take that bet. Apple is known to be very conservative with hardware form factors, and the AVP was a huge risk for them, and a departure from their previous ways of working that they'll be reluctant to return to after its failure.

stevage 2y ago

Way more informative and interesting than the press release.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

thomastjeffery 2y ago

> Micro LED Projectors Is that true? Last time I was reading about holographic lenses, it was a flat white laser backlight fed into a waveguide (the hologram part), and filtered through an LCD. An actual LED projector would have darker darks, but I would much rather have a higher resolution.. It's definitely helpful to hear about the waveguide production problems. Obviously, that's going to be the greatest hurdle; after all, they are manufacturing a completely unique object with very small feature sizes.