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The department store embodies old lady consumerism. It's where you go to find mediocre but overpriced products. It's where your mom bought clothes for you tha

The department store embodies old lady consumerism. It's where you go to find mediocre but overpriced products. It's where your mom bought clothes for you that you didn't really like. It's where your mom still shops. The pricing structure is based on making moms feel like they got a good deal on a "sale", but actually everything is just overpriced and you can't get things with the appropriate price unless you play their dumb game. There are stories about department stores stopping this and losing lots of sales because their customers were addicted to it. They simply failed to change to attract new generations, their buyers couldn't buy for the next generation, so they kept targeting their aging customer base until they were gone and poof, no more department stores. You probably could do a new generation of department store targeting younger folks, but it would have to be much different. Probably won't happen. My last department store trip was to buy socks, they didn't have what I wanted, then I paid an outrageous price for average athletic socks because I didn't have the right coupon, store card, flier, whatever. I wanted socks more than I wanted to go through the trouble of buying nicer or cheaper ones on the Internet as I was already there. Kohls has a deal where they will give you a substantial coupon if you return something from Amazon to the store. Fuck me though, I'm not going to do the obvious scam. I'd feel less ripped off spending $50 per sock at Hermes.

spiffotron 2y ago
I think UK and US department stores are actually very very different. UK department stores generally only stock super high end designer gear, and sales / coupons are very very rare.
- echelon_musk 2y ago
  Agreed. These negative comments seem way off base to me. I wonder if they have ever been to John Lewis or Debenhams? I really miss department stores and I'm sad that they're disappearing. I have positive experiences using them.
  - Fluorescence 2y ago
    The flag ship stores, the Harrods, the Harvey Nichols might fit the high-end description but the ones that have gone, the Debenhams, C&A, BHS etc. did not. A lot of the "branded" goods were more like the first OP said - just a print or a label with some credibility like Levis, Diesel, Calvin Klein, Armani but on indifferent quality stuff you would never see in a high-end store from the same brand - likely from the same factories filling up super-market own brands but at 1/5 the price. The sales were also a very big thing, especially the big dates like Boxing Day, New Years or Easter - it was a common habit to only buy clothes once a year. All those sales got gamed though, they would ship-in special tat to put on rails at 70% off for Dec 26th rather than actually discount their products and then they started before Christmas, and then from "Black Friday" and then from before "Black Friday"... Yet I still miss them too. I hate fashion/shopping but clothes are sensual, they rest against the skin for years and the difference between good and bad is materials, craftsmanship and fit whereas an online jpg of a black t-shirt and a review of "my husband says it's ok" really tells me nothing at all. I find online browsing, deliveries and returns more time-consuming and stressful than a rare shopping trip.
    - naming_the_user 2y ago
      I think that what you're describing is more like the "failure mode" of these stores - nowadays they are basically selling crap with labels, but in the 80s and 90s I don't think that was the case. It'd never be the same quality as a top end boutique of course, but it wasn't tat either. Or maybe that's just nostalgia!
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
      Tat? Tattoo?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- pjc50 2y ago
  Does Primark count as a "department store"? TK Maxx? Or, since the closure of Debenhams and BHS, are we down to John Lewis (true archetype of the department store that sells everything), M&S, and the occasional Harvey Nicks?
  - spiffotron 2y ago
    I'd class Primark etc as fast fashion stores really - in my mind department stores are Harvey Nicks and Harrods etc
    - pjc50 2y ago
      Harrods is kind of an exception as it's a single store that's always positioned itself at the very highest end of retail. It will probably outlast most other retailers so long as it retains that cachet.
- nkrisc 2y ago
  When I think of heyday US department stores I think of Macy’s, Sears, Carson Pirie Scott, Montgomery Ward, Nordstrom, and I’m sure offers I’m forgetting. Of course those are all either shells of their former selves or gone entirely. Macy’s might have been the last high end department store in the US (that I’m aware of), but even 10 years ago going into their flagship Chicago location felt like walking into a K-Mart. I don’t know if I’d consider stores like Saks to truly be department stores.
  - booleandilemma 2y ago
    The Macy's at 34th street in NYC is the flagship and it's still going strong. I went last week, lots of nice stuff.
    - nkrisc 2y ago
      That’s good to hear. The impression I get is that Macy’s outside of NYC is basically gone, in spirit if not physically. It’s a shame because they took over the Marshall Field building in Chicago (another department store I forgot to mention) which is a gorgeous historic building, so it was kind of nice when Macy’s moved in and fixed it up. Last time I was there it felt like a last-mile warehouse for their online delivery business. Same thing happened to the State St. Sears store just a block away.
  - AmVess 2y ago
    These are gone from many markets due to the race to the bottom. They cut the quality out of clothes so they could make more per item without paying attention to the simple fact that quality is what brought people into the store. At the end, they all sold the same junk sourced from the same places, but with different labels sewn into them. Consumers saw no value in paying a lot extra for something they could get for a lot less somewhere else. Thus, department stores outside of big cities vanished. The same thing happened to malls. They used to be full of locally owned businesses that offered a variety of goods. Now, they are all the same handful of stores selling the same things you can get for a lot less online. Even worse, nearly all of them offer a low rent experience because there are only a handful of stores left operating in each one. Seeing a building full of dark and closed stores screams economic decay. Who wants that experience?
- arethuza 2y ago
  "only stock super high end designer gear" I don't think that applied to BHS or Debenhams - both long gone though....
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- colechristensen 2y ago
  In major US cities, there is sometimes one department store that meets this qualification, like San Francisco, Chicago, or New York, but even those are in decline. >super high end designer gear In theory this is what they're trying to project, but what it actually is around here is designers who were high end decades ago who have since dumped their quality and started selling to K-Mart. First you start selling to the rich, then you start selling to teenagers, then you put your label on anything hoping the symbol has some small value left.
shiroiushi 2y ago
>There are stories about department stores stopping this and losing lots of sales because their customers were addicted to it. This sounds like what happened to JC Penney.
pjc50 2y ago
> You probably could do a new generation of department store targeting younger folks, but it would have to be much different. Probably won't happen. This seems to have been replaced by Shein/Temu, which don't require you to get off your phone and go to a physical location.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  Think of the health and the environmental benefits \s
  - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
    Getting outside is good for your health. If you go to the store by bicycle, it's also good for the environment.
    - bamboozled 2y ago
      That was my point ? If you just use TEMU then it’s another exercise to sit in your ass all day.
      - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
        There are people who do argue that using your phone/laptop instead of getting to a physical location is good for the environment, since quite some people would instead use their car for this.
        bamboozled 2y ago
        If you're not driving or riding to the store, someone is driving to your house to deliver a package. Sure, it's likely more economical but on an individual level, it's another reason to sit on your ass.
lupusreal 2y ago
I'm pretty sure I got PTSD as a kid by getting dragged through these department stores for hours upon hours by my mom as she mindlessly browsed through clothes. Five hours to buy five shirts? I swore I would never shop at such stores, and I never have.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- chasd00 2y ago
  Yes, me too. And no phone or anything to occupy your time. Just behave and follow your mom step after step for hours.
  - lotsoweiners 2y ago
    I used to do the thing with my siblings where we hide in the clothes rack. Made the trips to Mervyns a little more tolerable.
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      I'd do that with my brothers until invariably some old miserable bitch would make a snide remark about it to my mother, who would be "MORTIFIED!" and drag us out to the building and make us wait in the car the rest of the day. Fun times...
pfdietz 2y ago
> There are stories about department stores stopping this and losing lots of sales because their customers were addicted to it. On the plus side, we got that memorable joke in "Airplane!".
Merrill 2y ago
The department store was a place where women could escape their houses or apartments and spend time in surroundings That were much more expensive and attractive. Marble floors, decorated walls, mirrors and glass, finely finished display cases, and quality goods all contributed to a pleasant environment. Seasonal changes in decoration and products kept the experience fresh. The escapist experience was paid for by pricing the goods to cover the overheads. When the department store migrated to being the anchor store at the suburban mall, its role as an escapist haven was diluted by the mall's amenities and by the proliferation of boutique shops lining the corridors. On-line shopping now offers a wider selection of goods at lower prices. And social media offers an alternative mechanism to escape their present reality.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  > The department store was a place where women could escape their houses or apartments and spend time in surroundings That were much more expensive and attractive. Marble floors, decorated walls, mirrors and glass, finely finished display cases, and quality goods all contributed to a pleasant environment. Seasonal changes in decoration and products kept the experience fresh. I guess it was that way at some time in upscale neighborhoods, but what I remember as a kid is linoleum and cheap worn out commercial carpet floors, the stink of cleaning chemicals, low ceilings and dim light, and unceasing elevator music. It nonetheless kept women zoned out ambling through the halls for hours. John Romero got it right when he portrayed it in his zombie movies. The low energy music, the spread out merchandise, the allure of "sales" that could be down the next aisle, no visible windows to the outside... these stores were engineered to get people zoned out and lose track of time. Like casinos with less bells and flashing lights.
BeFlatXIII 2y ago
My mom is a big fan of Kohl's. I casually mentioned I needed to restock on pants for the winter while visiting her last month, so she gave me her Kohl's coupon stack. Turns out that 40% off sale only was on certain brands. At least I liked the pants I bought.

spiffotron 2y ago

I think UK and US department stores are actually very very different. UK department stores generally only stock super high end designer gear, and sales / coupons are very very rare.

echelon_musk 2y ago
Agreed. These negative comments seem way off base to me. I wonder if they have ever been to John Lewis or Debenhams? I really miss department stores and I'm sad that they're disappearing. I have positive experiences using them.
- Fluorescence 2y ago
  The flag ship stores, the Harrods, the Harvey Nichols might fit the high-end description but the ones that have gone, the Debenhams, C&A, BHS etc. did not. A lot of the "branded" goods were more like the first OP said - just a print or a label with some credibility like Levis, Diesel, Calvin Klein, Armani but on indifferent quality stuff you would never see in a high-end store from the same brand - likely from the same factories filling up super-market own brands but at 1/5 the price. The sales were also a very big thing, especially the big dates like Boxing Day, New Years or Easter - it was a common habit to only buy clothes once a year. All those sales got gamed though, they would ship-in special tat to put on rails at 70% off for Dec 26th rather than actually discount their products and then they started before Christmas, and then from "Black Friday" and then from before "Black Friday"... Yet I still miss them too. I hate fashion/shopping but clothes are sensual, they rest against the skin for years and the difference between good and bad is materials, craftsmanship and fit whereas an online jpg of a black t-shirt and a review of "my husband says it's ok" really tells me nothing at all. I find online browsing, deliveries and returns more time-consuming and stressful than a rare shopping trip.
  - naming_the_user 2y ago
    I think that what you're describing is more like the "failure mode" of these stores - nowadays they are basically selling crap with labels, but in the 80s and 90s I don't think that was the case. It'd never be the same quality as a top end boutique of course, but it wasn't tat either. Or maybe that's just nostalgia!
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
    Tat? Tattoo?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pjc50 2y ago
Does Primark count as a "department store"? TK Maxx? Or, since the closure of Debenhams and BHS, are we down to John Lewis (true archetype of the department store that sells everything), M&S, and the occasional Harvey Nicks?
- spiffotron 2y ago
  I'd class Primark etc as fast fashion stores really - in my mind department stores are Harvey Nicks and Harrods etc
  - pjc50 2y ago
    Harrods is kind of an exception as it's a single store that's always positioned itself at the very highest end of retail. It will probably outlast most other retailers so long as it retains that cachet.
nkrisc 2y ago
When I think of heyday US department stores I think of Macy’s, Sears, Carson Pirie Scott, Montgomery Ward, Nordstrom, and I’m sure offers I’m forgetting. Of course those are all either shells of their former selves or gone entirely. Macy’s might have been the last high end department store in the US (that I’m aware of), but even 10 years ago going into their flagship Chicago location felt like walking into a K-Mart. I don’t know if I’d consider stores like Saks to truly be department stores.
- booleandilemma 2y ago
  The Macy's at 34th street in NYC is the flagship and it's still going strong. I went last week, lots of nice stuff.
  - nkrisc 2y ago
    That’s good to hear. The impression I get is that Macy’s outside of NYC is basically gone, in spirit if not physically. It’s a shame because they took over the Marshall Field building in Chicago (another department store I forgot to mention) which is a gorgeous historic building, so it was kind of nice when Macy’s moved in and fixed it up. Last time I was there it felt like a last-mile warehouse for their online delivery business. Same thing happened to the State St. Sears store just a block away.
- AmVess 2y ago
  These are gone from many markets due to the race to the bottom. They cut the quality out of clothes so they could make more per item without paying attention to the simple fact that quality is what brought people into the store. At the end, they all sold the same junk sourced from the same places, but with different labels sewn into them. Consumers saw no value in paying a lot extra for something they could get for a lot less somewhere else. Thus, department stores outside of big cities vanished. The same thing happened to malls. They used to be full of locally owned businesses that offered a variety of goods. Now, they are all the same handful of stores selling the same things you can get for a lot less online. Even worse, nearly all of them offer a low rent experience because there are only a handful of stores left operating in each one. Seeing a building full of dark and closed stores screams economic decay. Who wants that experience?
arethuza 2y ago
"only stock super high end designer gear" I don't think that applied to BHS or Debenhams - both long gone though....
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
colechristensen 2y ago
In major US cities, there is sometimes one department store that meets this qualification, like San Francisco, Chicago, or New York, but even those are in decline. >super high end designer gear In theory this is what they're trying to project, but what it actually is around here is designers who were high end decades ago who have since dumped their quality and started selling to K-Mart. First you start selling to the rich, then you start selling to teenagers, then you put your label on anything hoping the symbol has some small value left.

shiroiushi 2y ago

>There are stories about department stores stopping this and losing lots of sales because their customers were addicted to it. This sounds like what happened to JC Penney.

pjc50 2y ago

> You probably could do a new generation of department store targeting younger folks, but it would have to be much different. Probably won't happen. This seems to have been replaced by Shein/Temu, which don't require you to get off your phone and go to a physical location.

bamboozled 2y ago
Think of the health and the environmental benefits \s
- aleph_minus_one 2y ago
  Getting outside is good for your health. If you go to the store by bicycle, it's also good for the environment.
  - bamboozled 2y ago
    That was my point ? If you just use TEMU then it’s another exercise to sit in your ass all day.
    - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
      There are people who do argue that using your phone/laptop instead of getting to a physical location is good for the environment, since quite some people would instead use their car for this.
      - bamboozled 2y ago
        If you're not driving or riding to the store, someone is driving to your house to deliver a package. Sure, it's likely more economical but on an individual level, it's another reason to sit on your ass.

lupusreal 2y ago

I'm pretty sure I got PTSD as a kid by getting dragged through these department stores for hours upon hours by my mom as she mindlessly browsed through clothes. Five hours to buy five shirts? I swore I would never shop at such stores, and I never have.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
chasd00 2y ago
Yes, me too. And no phone or anything to occupy your time. Just behave and follow your mom step after step for hours.
- lotsoweiners 2y ago
  I used to do the thing with my siblings where we hide in the clothes rack. Made the trips to Mervyns a little more tolerable.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    I'd do that with my brothers until invariably some old miserable bitch would make a snide remark about it to my mother, who would be "MORTIFIED!" and drag us out to the building and make us wait in the car the rest of the day. Fun times...

pfdietz 2y ago

> There are stories about department stores stopping this and losing lots of sales because their customers were addicted to it. On the plus side, we got that memorable joke in "Airplane!".

Merrill 2y ago

The department store was a place where women could escape their houses or apartments and spend time in surroundings That were much more expensive and attractive. Marble floors, decorated walls, mirrors and glass, finely finished display cases, and quality goods all contributed to a pleasant environment. Seasonal changes in decoration and products kept the experience fresh. The escapist experience was paid for by pricing the goods to cover the overheads. When the department store migrated to being the anchor store at the suburban mall, its role as an escapist haven was diluted by the mall's amenities and by the proliferation of boutique shops lining the corridors. On-line shopping now offers a wider selection of goods at lower prices. And social media offers an alternative mechanism to escape their present reality.

lupusreal 2y ago
> The department store was a place where women could escape their houses or apartments and spend time in surroundings That were much more expensive and attractive. Marble floors, decorated walls, mirrors and glass, finely finished display cases, and quality goods all contributed to a pleasant environment. Seasonal changes in decoration and products kept the experience fresh. I guess it was that way at some time in upscale neighborhoods, but what I remember as a kid is linoleum and cheap worn out commercial carpet floors, the stink of cleaning chemicals, low ceilings and dim light, and unceasing elevator music. It nonetheless kept women zoned out ambling through the halls for hours. John Romero got it right when he portrayed it in his zombie movies. The low energy music, the spread out merchandise, the allure of "sales" that could be down the next aisle, no visible windows to the outside... these stores were engineered to get people zoned out and lose track of time. Like casinos with less bells and flashing lights.

BeFlatXIII 2y ago

My mom is a big fan of Kohl's. I casually mentioned I needed to restock on pants for the winter while visiting her last month, so she gave me her Kohl's coupon stack. Turns out that 40% off sale only was on certain brands. At least I liked the pants I bought.