4 ms·

Visa acts as a censor, too. If you are making perfectly legal porn, for instance, then every few years you need to find a new way to take payment because your o

Visa acts as a censor, too. If you are making perfectly legal porn, for instance, then every few years you need to find a new way to take payment because your old one got big enough for Visa to notice it and say "hey no porn".

ethbr1 2y ago
This. Especially back in the 90s, it was disgusting how easily the US government leaned on the major payment networks and banks, absent any law or illegality, to disconnect the porn industry. Call me old fashioned, but if that's a thing you want to do in a democracy, there should be a legal basis passed through the legislative branch...
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  >it was disgusting how easily the US government It was never the US government? It was always done by advocacy groups with good law firms suing Visa for _whatever_ until Visa """voluntarily""" censored porn payments.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    The DOJ under Bush W absolutely prosecuted explicit pornography for political optics. (WARNING: Some pretty nasty stuff mentioned; text, not pictures) https://web.archive.org/web/20060321172250/http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=25246 https://web.archive.org/web/20060321172250/http://www.thestr... Primarily through leveraging the power of the AG to apply on-the-books obscenity laws to material which previously hadn't been targeted as such. When the courts took a dim view towards that, they decided they could get quicker wins by making it clear to Visa et al. that things would be uncomfortable if they didn't "voluntarily" choose to stop doing business with pornographic companies.
MBCook 2y ago
While I understand your point, doesn’t adult stuff also have very high rates of fraud and chargebacks? Even if a fair bit may have been correct but reported as fraud for personal reasons? Avoiding a category like that (or holding it to stricter standards) seems rather reasonable.
- lxgr 2y ago
  Maybe so (I have no idea), but the risk of fraud and chargebacks is not borne by the network. There are many other high risk industries they don't seem to have a problem with.
  - quesera 2y ago
    Visa sets merchant policy, and they do not allow high chargeback rates. The merchant bears the brunt of the economic loss, but chargebacks are a relatively expensive hassle for the network too, and ultimately they will drop merchants who cannot keep chargebacks low. Around 0.5% is considered reasonable. Anywhere in the 1% area for more than a few months will get a merchant dropped.
pkaye 2y ago
Isn't that because of high chargeback rates?

ethbr1 2y ago

This. Especially back in the 90s, it was disgusting how easily the US government leaned on the major payment networks and banks, absent any law or illegality, to disconnect the porn industry. Call me old fashioned, but if that's a thing you want to do in a democracy, there should be a legal basis passed through the legislative branch...

mrguyorama 2y ago
>it was disgusting how easily the US government It was never the US government? It was always done by advocacy groups with good law firms suing Visa for _whatever_ until Visa """voluntarily""" censored porn payments.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  The DOJ under Bush W absolutely prosecuted explicit pornography for political optics. (WARNING: Some pretty nasty stuff mentioned; text, not pictures) https://web.archive.org/web/20060321172250/http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=25246 https://web.archive.org/web/20060321172250/http://www.thestr... Primarily through leveraging the power of the AG to apply on-the-books obscenity laws to material which previously hadn't been targeted as such. When the courts took a dim view towards that, they decided they could get quicker wins by making it clear to Visa et al. that things would be uncomfortable if they didn't "voluntarily" choose to stop doing business with pornographic companies.

MBCook 2y ago

While I understand your point, doesn’t adult stuff also have very high rates of fraud and chargebacks? Even if a fair bit may have been correct but reported as fraud for personal reasons? Avoiding a category like that (or holding it to stricter standards) seems rather reasonable.

lxgr 2y ago
Maybe so (I have no idea), but the risk of fraud and chargebacks is not borne by the network. There are many other high risk industries they don't seem to have a problem with.
- quesera 2y ago
  Visa sets merchant policy, and they do not allow high chargeback rates. The merchant bears the brunt of the economic loss, but chargebacks are a relatively expensive hassle for the network too, and ultimately they will drop merchants who cannot keep chargebacks low. Around 0.5% is considered reasonable. Anywhere in the 1% area for more than a few months will get a merchant dropped.

pkaye 2y ago

Isn't that because of high chargeback rates?