87 ms·

Intel's Core Ultra 2 Chip Posts Nearly 24-Hour Battery Life in Lunar Lake

44 points by gavi 2y ago

PaulHoule 2y ago
... and Microsoft (probably Linux too) will throw it all away with some tiny coding mistake.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Probably not, Intel does a pretty decent job regulating power consumption as long as you don't modify the power profiles or fuck with ACPI. Distributions or third-party nagware might ruin the battery, but that goes for any laptop that's required to install Teams or McAfee. Loading up powertop on my i7 6600u reports an idle draw of 5.5w with my browser open playing music. I think that's pretty damn good, for an old-ish laptop with mitigations enabled on Linux.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    My understanding is that ACPI handling code is more complex than any OS pre-1990...
    - talldayo 2y ago
      They don't call it "advanced" for nothin'. FWIW the alternative these days is probably running a 32-bit RTOS on your battery hardware which isn't much simpler.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Probably not, Intel does a pretty decent job regulating power consumption as long as you don't modify the power profiles or fuck with ACPI. That assumes the motherboard vendor implemented ACPI properly, and most don't, you're often lucky to have something that is able to keep Windows alive enough to pass certifications. Linux, xBSD or macOS compatibility? Forget it unless you're talking servers with support contracts making it actually worth the effort for manufacturers.
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      I don't trust anything in power management to work right on Windows (or Linux.) It is way better than it was in 2000 when I was working with a businessguy who had a Windows laptop that needed several hard reboots a day. Right now I am listening to music on this computer while I work on another computer. When the screen turns off on this computer the headphones get switched to headset (telecommunications) mode and the music quality goes down... On a desktop computer where saving power is not a big issue and I certainly don't want worse audio just because the screen powered off. It's been a long term issue that USB devices will not work properly if USB power management is enabled and that's scary when some of those devices are mass storage devices that could corrupt data. As a single vendor, I trust Apple better to get things like this right, but I don't particularly like MacOS.
    - StillBored 2y ago
      Sure, there are ACPI bugs, they hit windows too. But to claim there are "works on windows but not linux" bugs everywhere is bogus. If it works in windows, it should work in linux too, that is the point of a platform power interface like ACPI. When one actually tries to look at why the battery life is worse in linux, or the machine doesn't resume properly, overwhelmingly what one finds are linux bugs. Bugs, like the distro won't ship accelerated video codec's, or hibernate is broken due to the kernel refusing to support it with secure boot on, or the wifi or GPU drivers have bugs in their suspend/resume paths, or even simpler things like there isn't a clear project/owner responsible for detecting seat activity and making power related decisions. Sure the freedesktop/dbus/systemd interfaces are there, but often a WM of distro will replace one of those components and create another set of bugs. Never mind desktop Linux still doesn't have the concept of a foreground/background application split so even if it wants to do scheduling hints indicating that a minimized chat application shouldn't be consuming 100% of a cpu when in the background no such standardized component exists unless one is running android. Systemd rightly gets a lot of shit, but it has standardized parts of this functionality, like for example how an application requests a screen inhibit. Nevermind it takes 2-3 years from the point a machine gets released before all the driver tweaks/etc land upstream, and trickle down to your average users machine. Bottom line, linux on laptops only really works because of ACPI, if you were wondering what the laptop space looks like without it, I might suggest grabbing a couple random arm laptops/chromebooks and giving them a spin.
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tester756 2y ago
Where are all those people who for years (or since M1) were claiming that x86 is dead because ARM ISA (magically) offers significantly better energy-efficiency than x86 ISA. Of course they ignored things like node advantage, but who cares? ;) Meanwhile industry veterans were claiming something different and turns out they were right https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-matter/ https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-... Asking which - x86 or ARM is faster/more energy eff is like asking which syntax (letters) is faster - syntax of Rust, Java or C++? And same as with CPUs - everything is up to the implementation - compiler, runtime/vm, libraries, etc.
- deleted 2y ago
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- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  It's early. Im sure they'll be here moving goalposts and cherry picking some new stat that's suddenly a deal breaker.
- ceronman 2y ago
  x86 is certainly not dead, and I don't think it will anytime soon, but they are still behind Apple M3 in terms of performance per watt. And M4 is about to arrive. I'm a bit disappointed because I really want more competition for Apple, but they're just not there yet, nor x86 nor Qualcomm.
  - grues-dinner 2y ago
    Apple will also run into the diminishing returns, but they will retain the real killer advantage over general purpose CPU vendors that the have in other hardware areas: being able to retire or rework old or misconceived parts of the architecture entirely in future versions unilaterally. If they want to drop M1 support in some future MacOS version, all it will take will be a WWDC announcement that the next version won't simply work on that generation it earlier of machines.
    - 2y ago
jmakov 2y ago
But will the CPU last more than 2 months
barbegal 2y ago
Battery life is based on playing a 720p video file so most of the expended power will be in the video decoder and screen not the actual CPU. It's also dependent on the battery size in the laptop being tested so pretty much impossible to compare on any like for like basis.
- xena 2y ago
  Where is the video decoder unit located though?
  - cogman10 2y ago
    CPU to be sure. However, low power video decoders are really nothing new for Intel or AMD. Also, the codec being decoded matters a lot. H.264 is trivial to decode at this point while something like AV1 will require a bit more power to decode.
    - ac29 2y ago
      Video decode is part of the GPU, not CPU. They are on the same tile in Lunar Lake though.
- ac29 2y ago
  Yep, also putting all of the laptops at "50%" brightness isnt an equal comparison. One panel's 50% might be the same brightness as another's 100%.
- VincentEvans 2y ago
  Spot on. Why not use any more or less standard cpu benchmark? The publication is either being strangely incompetent at this, or deliberately misleading.
  - BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
    Success despite incompetence isn't that strange.
- deleted 2y ago
ceronman 2y ago
Take it with a grain of salt. Other reviewers such as Hardware Canucks [1] have mentioned that they have not been able to get such long hours. Their numbers are closer to 15 hours. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxAMD6i5dVc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxAMD6i5dVc
- deleted 2y ago
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- causal 2y ago
  The type of test definitely matters but 15 hours ain't too shabby either
  - belval 2y ago
    Yeah especially since my ~12 hours XPS does maybe 7-8 hours in typical usage. Going from 24 to 15 hours seems roughly on-par with the course.
OptionOfT 2y ago
Honestly, I'll believe it if I have one in my hands. So far I have a Surface Laptop 7 with the Snapdragon which has blown me away in terms of battery life. I'm talking 10+ hours watching video on full brightness. And I'll happily sacrifice 50% of that for a better screen and a more powerful GPU. The worst part today Windows 11 ARM is that on WSL `brew` is not supported.
JodieBenitez 2y ago
Ah... can't wait to see the next generation of "macbook killers".
cortesoft 2y ago
I mean, any laptop could have 7 days worth of battery life with a big enough battery
SushiHippie 2y ago
I'd love to know how long the Acer Swift Go 14 with the AMD Ryzen would have lasted with the same battery size. The Acer Swift Go 14 has a battery with 53 WHrs and for e.g. the Asus Zenbook S 14 has a 72 WHrs battery. Would this mean the Ryzen Laptop could have lasted ~1.35 times longer than it currently did i.e. 21:15 hours instead of 15:40?
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Sakos 2y ago
The most interesting part to me is the Cyberpunk 2077 performance compared to Snapdragon and AMD. It's surprisingly good and considering Strix Point pricing, Intel might be the next sure bet for the Steam Deck 2. If not with this, then maybe with Panther Lake (Intel 18A).

44 points by gavi 2y ago

PaulHoule 2y ago

... and Microsoft (probably Linux too) will throw it all away with some tiny coding mistake.

talldayo 2y ago
Probably not, Intel does a pretty decent job regulating power consumption as long as you don't modify the power profiles or fuck with ACPI. Distributions or third-party nagware might ruin the battery, but that goes for any laptop that's required to install Teams or McAfee. Loading up powertop on my i7 6600u reports an idle draw of 5.5w with my browser open playing music. I think that's pretty damn good, for an old-ish laptop with mitigations enabled on Linux.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  My understanding is that ACPI handling code is more complex than any OS pre-1990...
  - talldayo 2y ago
    They don't call it "advanced" for nothin'. FWIW the alternative these days is probably running a 32-bit RTOS on your battery hardware which isn't much simpler.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > Probably not, Intel does a pretty decent job regulating power consumption as long as you don't modify the power profiles or fuck with ACPI. That assumes the motherboard vendor implemented ACPI properly, and most don't, you're often lucky to have something that is able to keep Windows alive enough to pass certifications. Linux, xBSD or macOS compatibility? Forget it unless you're talking servers with support contracts making it actually worth the effort for manufacturers.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    I don't trust anything in power management to work right on Windows (or Linux.) It is way better than it was in 2000 when I was working with a businessguy who had a Windows laptop that needed several hard reboots a day. Right now I am listening to music on this computer while I work on another computer. When the screen turns off on this computer the headphones get switched to headset (telecommunications) mode and the music quality goes down... On a desktop computer where saving power is not a big issue and I certainly don't want worse audio just because the screen powered off. It's been a long term issue that USB devices will not work properly if USB power management is enabled and that's scary when some of those devices are mass storage devices that could corrupt data. As a single vendor, I trust Apple better to get things like this right, but I don't particularly like MacOS.
  - StillBored 2y ago
    Sure, there are ACPI bugs, they hit windows too. But to claim there are "works on windows but not linux" bugs everywhere is bogus. If it works in windows, it should work in linux too, that is the point of a platform power interface like ACPI. When one actually tries to look at why the battery life is worse in linux, or the machine doesn't resume properly, overwhelmingly what one finds are linux bugs. Bugs, like the distro won't ship accelerated video codec's, or hibernate is broken due to the kernel refusing to support it with secure boot on, or the wifi or GPU drivers have bugs in their suspend/resume paths, or even simpler things like there isn't a clear project/owner responsible for detecting seat activity and making power related decisions. Sure the freedesktop/dbus/systemd interfaces are there, but often a WM of distro will replace one of those components and create another set of bugs. Never mind desktop Linux still doesn't have the concept of a foreground/background application split so even if it wants to do scheduling hints indicating that a minimized chat application shouldn't be consuming 100% of a cpu when in the background no such standardized component exists unless one is running android. Systemd rightly gets a lot of shit, but it has standardized parts of this functionality, like for example how an application requests a screen inhibit. Nevermind it takes 2-3 years from the point a machine gets released before all the driver tweaks/etc land upstream, and trickle down to your average users machine. Bottom line, linux on laptops only really works because of ACPI, if you were wondering what the laptop space looks like without it, I might suggest grabbing a couple random arm laptops/chromebooks and giving them a spin.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tester756 2y ago

Where are all those people who for years (or since M1) were claiming that x86 is dead because ARM ISA (magically) offers significantly better energy-efficiency than x86 ISA. Of course they ignored things like node advantage, but who cares? ;) Meanwhile industry veterans were claiming something different and turns out they were right https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-matter/ https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-... Asking which - x86 or ARM is faster/more energy eff is like asking which syntax (letters) is faster - syntax of Rust, Java or C++? And same as with CPUs - everything is up to the implementation - compiler, runtime/vm, libraries, etc.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
It's early. Im sure they'll be here moving goalposts and cherry picking some new stat that's suddenly a deal breaker.
ceronman 2y ago
x86 is certainly not dead, and I don't think it will anytime soon, but they are still behind Apple M3 in terms of performance per watt. And M4 is about to arrive. I'm a bit disappointed because I really want more competition for Apple, but they're just not there yet, nor x86 nor Qualcomm.
- grues-dinner 2y ago
  Apple will also run into the diminishing returns, but they will retain the real killer advantage over general purpose CPU vendors that the have in other hardware areas: being able to retire or rework old or misconceived parts of the architecture entirely in future versions unilaterally. If they want to drop M1 support in some future MacOS version, all it will take will be a WWDC announcement that the next version won't simply work on that generation it earlier of machines.
  - 2y ago

jmakov 2y ago

But will the CPU last more than 2 months

barbegal 2y ago

Battery life is based on playing a 720p video file so most of the expended power will be in the video decoder and screen not the actual CPU. It's also dependent on the battery size in the laptop being tested so pretty much impossible to compare on any like for like basis.

xena 2y ago
Where is the video decoder unit located though?
- cogman10 2y ago
  CPU to be sure. However, low power video decoders are really nothing new for Intel or AMD. Also, the codec being decoded matters a lot. H.264 is trivial to decode at this point while something like AV1 will require a bit more power to decode.
  - ac29 2y ago
    Video decode is part of the GPU, not CPU. They are on the same tile in Lunar Lake though.
ac29 2y ago
Yep, also putting all of the laptops at "50%" brightness isnt an equal comparison. One panel's 50% might be the same brightness as another's 100%.
VincentEvans 2y ago
Spot on. Why not use any more or less standard cpu benchmark? The publication is either being strangely incompetent at this, or deliberately misleading.
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  Success despite incompetence isn't that strange.
deleted 2y ago

ceronman 2y ago

Take it with a grain of salt. Other reviewers such as Hardware Canucks [1] have mentioned that they have not been able to get such long hours. Their numbers are closer to 15 hours. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxAMD6i5dVc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxAMD6i5dVc

deleted 2y ago
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causal 2y ago
The type of test definitely matters but 15 hours ain't too shabby either
- belval 2y ago
  Yeah especially since my ~12 hours XPS does maybe 7-8 hours in typical usage. Going from 24 to 15 hours seems roughly on-par with the course.

OptionOfT 2y ago

Honestly, I'll believe it if I have one in my hands. So far I have a Surface Laptop 7 with the Snapdragon which has blown me away in terms of battery life. I'm talking 10+ hours watching video on full brightness. And I'll happily sacrifice 50% of that for a better screen and a more powerful GPU. The worst part today Windows 11 ARM is that on WSL `brew` is not supported.

JodieBenitez 2y ago

Ah... can't wait to see the next generation of "macbook killers".

cortesoft 2y ago

I mean, any laptop could have 7 days worth of battery life with a big enough battery

SushiHippie 2y ago

I'd love to know how long the Acer Swift Go 14 with the AMD Ryzen would have lasted with the same battery size. The Acer Swift Go 14 has a battery with 53 WHrs and for e.g. the Asus Zenbook S 14 has a 72 WHrs battery. Would this mean the Ryzen Laptop could have lasted ~1.35 times longer than it currently did i.e. 21:15 hours instead of 15:40?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Sakos 2y ago

The most interesting part to me is the Cyberpunk 2077 performance compared to Snapdragon and AMD. It's surprisingly good and considering Strix Point pricing, Intel might be the next sure bet for the Steam Deck 2. If not with this, then maybe with Panther Lake (Intel 18A).