5 ms·

We (family of 5) live in Vienna and we're pretty multi modal. We have an annual ticket for the public transport system, have a minivan, a cargo bike and individ

We (family of 5) live in Vienna and we're pretty multi modal. We have an annual ticket for the public transport system, have a minivan, a cargo bike and individual bikes for all of us. On top of that kick scooters. So money is really not an issue when it comes to picking the right vehicle since we have pretty much all the options. Within the city, the cargo bike and the kick scooters by far get the most utilization. The kick scooters in part because they are super useful to speed up the way to public transport. But man the cargo bike is just a whole different game. Yes, it's a bit heavy but you can use pretty much all infrastructure with it and you can haul a lot with it. Particularly in the summer time when we go to the pools or other activities it's a no brainer. Parking is not an issue, neither is being stuck in traffic. The cost obviously is a massive hurdle for most families probably, and so is over night parking for many. Within the city we have more kilometers on the cargo bike than the car by at least double.

k8sToGo 2y ago
What are you primarily using during winter and rainy months?
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  Since our older kids go to school themselves I don't have to cycle them any more. The last few years I dropped two kids of at day care by cargo bike regardless of weather. The alternative is basically public transport because the combination of traffic and lack of parking locations in the city make dropping them off by car impossible for me. So I basically have the choice of cycling in the rain (the kids are rain protected in the bike anyways) and taking the bus and subway. However at either one of those sides I need to walk a bit anyways and then the kids also get wet. So despite potentially wet and snowy weather, it's still the best option.
- tda 2y ago
  All bakfiets models come with (optional) rain tents, so young can kids stay dry and out of the wind. Cold is usually more of an issue than rain on longer trips. In a bit of snow, I feel a lot safer on my bike than in a car. Just adjust speed and do controlled braking to feel the grip (or lack thereof). It helps a lot that I live in a flat country (Netherlands), as snow/ice and slopes are a really bad combination with cycling.
- timeon 2y ago
  People bike in rain and snow.
  - LegitShady 2y ago
    everything is relative. biking in vienna in winter isn't similar at all to biking in winnipeg in the winter.
    - throw0101c 2y ago
      > everything is relative. biking in vienna in winter isn't similar at all to biking in winnipeg in the winter. Perfect is the enemy of the good: just because you can't cycle everyday, twelve months of the year, doesn't mean you shouldn't perhaps cycle for 6/8/10 months of the years when it is "possible". But on the topic of locations, how about Finland? "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Or a fellow in Calgary: * https://www.youtube.com/@Shifter_Cycling https://www.youtube.com/@Shifter_Cycling Or a couple that have live(d) in Ottawa and Montreal: * https://www.youtube.com/@OhTheUrbanity/search?query=winter https://www.youtube.com/@OhTheUrbanity/search?query=winter Also look at the larger conversation of one of the most car-centric countries, the US: how many folks live in climate zones (say) 1 to 4: * https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map What does "winter" mean there?
      - LegitShady 2y ago
        Ya, I could bike in -20c to -40c weather for 1.5 hours a day in each direction (3 hours a day), or I could drive to work and be warm for 25 minutes and have 2.5 hours to do useful things with my life. Bike nuts are nuts.
- throw0101c 2y ago
  > What are you primarily using during winter and rainy months? In the Toronto, Canada, I cycled 5km every workday to/from work, from March to December, rain or shine: as long as the roads were clear I added layers for winter, and during rain I put on rain gear (like even a simple poncho): * https://www.mec.ca/en/product/6017-198/mec-hydrocycle-jacket-mens https://www.mec.ca/en/product/6017-198/mec-hydrocycle-jacket... I bought my rain gear many years ago, and it gave be ~decade of service (don't cycle nowadays because of WFH/hybrid, but the gear is still good).
  - LegitShady 2y ago
    pretty milk winter in toronto as well
    - throw0101c 2y ago
      > pretty milk winter in toronto as well How many people live in IECC Climate Zones ≥5: * https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map And even for those that do, just because someone may not cycle in the winter, that does not preclude cycling during the other three seasons. Further, not all winter days are bad, even in colder climates. See also "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Or a fellow in Calgary: * https://www.youtube.com/@Shifter_Cycling https://www.youtube.com/@Shifter_Cycling Or a couple that have live(d) in Ottawa and Montreal: * https://www.youtube.com/@OhTheUrbanity/search?query=winter https://www.youtube.com/@OhTheUrbanity/search?query=winter
      - LegitShady 2y ago
        Winter weather in calgary, ottawa, and montreal are all warmer than winnipeg or edmonton.
- LegitShady 2y ago
  vienna has a very mild winter. they're barely just below freezing most of the time.
chipdart 2y ago
> The cost obviously is a massive hurdle for most families probably, and so is over night parking for many. Cargo bikes have an absurdly and inexplicably high cost. It's unbelievable how they can easily cost over $5k. That's nearly half a brand new car like a Dacia Sandero. The economy is barely there with all this price gouging.
- unixhero 2y ago
  It doesn't have to be economic if you want it.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > all this price gouging Price gouging is short term and localised. If you truly think you’ve identified a mispriced product, this is HN. You’re capable of more than loosely complaining about it.
  - chipdart 2y ago
    > Price gouging is short term and localised. If you truly think you’ve identified a mispriced product, this is HN. You’re capable of more than loosely complaining about it. I don't understand what point you tried to make. Whenever I see price gouging, my reaction is not to "disrupt markets" or put together elevator pitches. I move on with my life because I have better things to do with my life than planning to startup a company whenever I'm baffled by something. In this case, if I see companies price gouging cargo bikes, I solve all my problems by not buying one. Easy. No elevator pitch required. But that doesn't mean that people aren't being fleeced by these cargo bike companies.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > don't understand what point you tried to make. Whenever I see price gouging You’re describing a product that’s too expensive for you. Just because something is expensive doesn’t prove price gouging. You may also be confusing profiteering in general with price gouging. Even then, you’re made no argument showing the problem is excess margins. Unless you’re looked into the BOM, labour, inventory and certification costs, “this feels expensive” isn’t insightful. > I have better things to do with my life than planning to startup a company whenever I'm baffled by something Then it’s not price gouging or profiteering. It’s someone providing a niche product conveniently. (I personally cannot see how you can make a high-power, decently-ranged, decent-quality electric bike in low volumes with fairly-paid labor and safe storage of e.g. the large batteries without a cost floor of a few thousand Euro.)
SmellTheGlove 2y ago
I was just in Vienna for a week. I was surprised to see just how many people biked through the city. We obviously spent our time where the tourists do in the center, but how far out from there can you live in Vienna and still have what you said above remain true?
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  I don’t think the distance to the city center matters but the trips you take. A have a colleague who lives very far out but he cycles his kids by cargo bike to the daycare which isn’t too far away, then to the train before commuting into the center.
  - SmellTheGlove 2y ago
    In the US at least, the non-car infrastructure becomes less of a thing the farther out that you are.
amelius 2y ago
> it's a bit heavy but you can use pretty much all infrastructure with it. What do you mean by this exactly? Can you take it in a subway/train?

k8sToGo 2y ago

What are you primarily using during winter and rainy months?

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
Since our older kids go to school themselves I don't have to cycle them any more. The last few years I dropped two kids of at day care by cargo bike regardless of weather. The alternative is basically public transport because the combination of traffic and lack of parking locations in the city make dropping them off by car impossible for me. So I basically have the choice of cycling in the rain (the kids are rain protected in the bike anyways) and taking the bus and subway. However at either one of those sides I need to walk a bit anyways and then the kids also get wet. So despite potentially wet and snowy weather, it's still the best option.
tda 2y ago
All bakfiets models come with (optional) rain tents, so young can kids stay dry and out of the wind. Cold is usually more of an issue than rain on longer trips. In a bit of snow, I feel a lot safer on my bike than in a car. Just adjust speed and do controlled braking to feel the grip (or lack thereof). It helps a lot that I live in a flat country (Netherlands), as snow/ice and slopes are a really bad combination with cycling.
timeon 2y ago
People bike in rain and snow.
- LegitShady 2y ago
  everything is relative. biking in vienna in winter isn't similar at all to biking in winnipeg in the winter.
  - throw0101c 2y ago
    > everything is relative. biking in vienna in winter isn't similar at all to biking in winnipeg in the winter. Perfect is the enemy of the good: just because you can't cycle everyday, twelve months of the year, doesn't mean you shouldn't perhaps cycle for 6/8/10 months of the years when it is "possible". But on the topic of locations, how about Finland? "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Or a fellow in Calgary: * https://www.youtube.com/@Shifter_Cycling https://www.youtube.com/@Shifter_Cycling Or a couple that have live(d) in Ottawa and Montreal: * https://www.youtube.com/@OhTheUrbanity/search?query=winter https://www.youtube.com/@OhTheUrbanity/search?query=winter Also look at the larger conversation of one of the most car-centric countries, the US: how many folks live in climate zones (say) 1 to 4: * https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map What does "winter" mean there?
    - LegitShady 2y ago
      Ya, I could bike in -20c to -40c weather for 1.5 hours a day in each direction (3 hours a day), or I could drive to work and be warm for 25 minutes and have 2.5 hours to do useful things with my life. Bike nuts are nuts.
throw0101c 2y ago
> What are you primarily using during winter and rainy months? In the Toronto, Canada, I cycled 5km every workday to/from work, from March to December, rain or shine: as long as the roads were clear I added layers for winter, and during rain I put on rain gear (like even a simple poncho): * https://www.mec.ca/en/product/6017-198/mec-hydrocycle-jacket-mens https://www.mec.ca/en/product/6017-198/mec-hydrocycle-jacket... I bought my rain gear many years ago, and it gave be ~decade of service (don't cycle nowadays because of WFH/hybrid, but the gear is still good).
- LegitShady 2y ago
  pretty milk winter in toronto as well
  - throw0101c 2y ago
    > pretty milk winter in toronto as well How many people live in IECC Climate Zones ≥5: * https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map And even for those that do, just because someone may not cycle in the winter, that does not preclude cycling during the other three seasons. Further, not all winter days are bad, even in colder climates. See also "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Or a fellow in Calgary: * https://www.youtube.com/@Shifter_Cycling https://www.youtube.com/@Shifter_Cycling Or a couple that have live(d) in Ottawa and Montreal: * https://www.youtube.com/@OhTheUrbanity/search?query=winter https://www.youtube.com/@OhTheUrbanity/search?query=winter
    - LegitShady 2y ago
      Winter weather in calgary, ottawa, and montreal are all warmer than winnipeg or edmonton.
LegitShady 2y ago
vienna has a very mild winter. they're barely just below freezing most of the time.

chipdart 2y ago

> The cost obviously is a massive hurdle for most families probably, and so is over night parking for many. Cargo bikes have an absurdly and inexplicably high cost. It's unbelievable how they can easily cost over $5k. That's nearly half a brand new car like a Dacia Sandero. The economy is barely there with all this price gouging.

unixhero 2y ago
It doesn't have to be economic if you want it.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> all this price gouging Price gouging is short term and localised. If you truly think you’ve identified a mispriced product, this is HN. You’re capable of more than loosely complaining about it.
- chipdart 2y ago
  > Price gouging is short term and localised. If you truly think you’ve identified a mispriced product, this is HN. You’re capable of more than loosely complaining about it. I don't understand what point you tried to make. Whenever I see price gouging, my reaction is not to "disrupt markets" or put together elevator pitches. I move on with my life because I have better things to do with my life than planning to startup a company whenever I'm baffled by something. In this case, if I see companies price gouging cargo bikes, I solve all my problems by not buying one. Easy. No elevator pitch required. But that doesn't mean that people aren't being fleeced by these cargo bike companies.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > don't understand what point you tried to make. Whenever I see price gouging You’re describing a product that’s too expensive for you. Just because something is expensive doesn’t prove price gouging. You may also be confusing profiteering in general with price gouging. Even then, you’re made no argument showing the problem is excess margins. Unless you’re looked into the BOM, labour, inventory and certification costs, “this feels expensive” isn’t insightful. > I have better things to do with my life than planning to startup a company whenever I'm baffled by something Then it’s not price gouging or profiteering. It’s someone providing a niche product conveniently. (I personally cannot see how you can make a high-power, decently-ranged, decent-quality electric bike in low volumes with fairly-paid labor and safe storage of e.g. the large batteries without a cost floor of a few thousand Euro.)

SmellTheGlove 2y ago

I was just in Vienna for a week. I was surprised to see just how many people biked through the city. We obviously spent our time where the tourists do in the center, but how far out from there can you live in Vienna and still have what you said above remain true?

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
I don’t think the distance to the city center matters but the trips you take. A have a colleague who lives very far out but he cycles his kids by cargo bike to the daycare which isn’t too far away, then to the train before commuting into the center.
- SmellTheGlove 2y ago
  In the US at least, the non-car infrastructure becomes less of a thing the farther out that you are.

amelius 2y ago

> it's a bit heavy but you can use pretty much all infrastructure with it. What do you mean by this exactly? Can you take it in a subway/train?