4 ms·

Lets not forget iPhone vendor lock in that specifically slows down or entirely closes background connections for all other vendors except Apple. So syncing file

by antman 2y ago

Lets not forget iPhone vendor lock in that specifically slows down or entirely closes background connections for all other vendors except Apple. So syncing files with Nextcloud or any other app except Apple cloud is an exercise in undocumented futility. You can put it as a front application and wait (if corporate hasn’t forced a screen turning off timeout)

raverbashing 2y ago
Well, honestly, Apple is not wrong here. App Developers usually don't give a flying cluck about anything other than their apps. Battery, CPU, mobile data? Zero consideration. But then of course the fault lies on Apple (and MS - it's the same thing in Windows - see the CrowdStrike fiasco)
- dual_dingo 2y ago
  Well, no. This argument might be correct if this policy wouldn't very strongly incentive people to use (possibly paid!) iCloud instead and if Apple would just allow any app onto the app store (or effortless sideloading like on Android). Instead, they heavily scrutinize everything that gets submitted. They could just have special permissions for apps like Nextcloud that would only be enabled if the app behaves correctly regarding this background sync functionality.
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    Yes, there is an anti-competitiveness aspect here, and I agree with you that the access to the api should be allowed (given some limits) But nobody wants to sysadmin their phone with rare exceptions
- nrabulinski 2y ago
  The solution shouldn’t be to forbid anyone but apple from doing stuff in the background but to make permissions very clear, allow for stuff like scheduling background tasks and/or limiting background resources and, for power users, to outright allow specified apps to run in the background. So no, apple isn’t right here
shwouchk 2y ago
Not sure how the apple rant is related to the post but; I use syncthing (via mobius sync) on my iphone and am quite happy with it. It seems to be OK with enough background syncs as it is, but to top it off i added a shortcut that keeps the app in the foreground while the phone is charging and im always up to date, pretty much instantly. Used to keep a couple hundred gb in sync that way (books, papers, org files, passwords, etc). Not affiliated with the product.
- sneak 2y ago
  It always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when opportunists charge money for software they didn’t produce, simply by capitalizing on the fact that it’s difficult and annoying to sideload on iPhones.
  - shwouchk 2y ago
    It’s a one time $5 fee, integrates with the files app and generally has a few features that are not part of the base OSS app, such as the background syncs. It also sometimes gets affected by bugs that are not do not affect the “vanilla” syncthing, which takes some non-zero time to resolve and which indicate there is some effort going into creating this “port”. That took some time for the dev to create and would take me at least an hour of my time to reproduce, for which im happy to exchange $5. I could probably set up an ST instance inside iSH but it won’t work as smoothly, or create a native port myself, but I would rather not and feel thus is a fair exchange. Of course, I would welcome and am waiting for the release of your alternative free version. Until this time I’ll take your comment as yet another “i hate apple” post. Judging by your comment I suppose you don’t use generic drugs or any products based on expired patents not by the original patent inventor.
    - sneak 2y ago
      I cannot enter into the Apple Developer Program, or I would have released a lot of free builds of f/oss iOS apps already. Sadly Apple requires doxxing yourself to publish apps, which IMO is a human rights violation. You also need to provide a working phone number to be able to install even free apps on a phone or tablet you have already purchased. These policies stand directly in opposition to their stated value that “privacy is a human right”. The time of forced side loading support cannot come soon enough. > Of course, I would welcome and am waiting for the release of your alternative free version. Until this time I’ll take your comment as yet another “i hate apple” post. In my home a few minutes ago I just re-hung a framed, signed, and numbered print of some of Susan Kare’s pixel art for the original Macintosh System 1.0. It’s a common misconception that I hate Apple, but nothing could be further from the truth. Of course, you are free to continue believing incorrect things. :) FWIW, I paid the $5 and have Möbius Sync Pro installed on my phone. But, as a Syncthing contributor, fuck them. (Separately, it doesn’t even work right, whilst iCloud does, because of Apple’s anticompetitive bias against third party apps replicating OS functionality.) > Judging by your comment I suppose you don’t use generic drugs or any products based on expired patents not by the original patent inventor. I don’t believe in the concept of intellectual property. You misunderstand where I’m coming from. It’s a dick move to profit directly off the misfortune or hard work of others, which is precisely what the Möbius Sync authors are doing. It has nothing to do with patents or copyrights or what is or is not legally permitted to be done with the code. You will note that I release all of my own software into the public domain, not under copyleft licenses. People should be free to be a dick, just as I’m free to point it out.
touggourt 2y ago
One of my employees use Nextcloud on its iPhone and it works fast and well.
solarkraft 2y ago
Syncthing (via Möbius Sync) works quite (surispsibgly!) well on iOS, but there are still many paper cuts. I‘d have hoped the DMA would have forced platforms to be decoupled from services.
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  Legally, Apple must not provide its own services with an advantage over the competition. I think the background sync restrictions are a DMA violation legally speaking. Give the EU some time, I'm sure there'll be a lawsuit about iOS doing this stuff some day.

by antman 2y ago

raverbashing 2y ago

Well, honestly, Apple is not wrong here. App Developers usually don't give a flying cluck about anything other than their apps. Battery, CPU, mobile data? Zero consideration. But then of course the fault lies on Apple (and MS - it's the same thing in Windows - see the CrowdStrike fiasco)

dual_dingo 2y ago
Well, no. This argument might be correct if this policy wouldn't very strongly incentive people to use (possibly paid!) iCloud instead and if Apple would just allow any app onto the app store (or effortless sideloading like on Android). Instead, they heavily scrutinize everything that gets submitted. They could just have special permissions for apps like Nextcloud that would only be enabled if the app behaves correctly regarding this background sync functionality.
- raverbashing 2y ago
  Yes, there is an anti-competitiveness aspect here, and I agree with you that the access to the api should be allowed (given some limits) But nobody wants to sysadmin their phone with rare exceptions
nrabulinski 2y ago
The solution shouldn’t be to forbid anyone but apple from doing stuff in the background but to make permissions very clear, allow for stuff like scheduling background tasks and/or limiting background resources and, for power users, to outright allow specified apps to run in the background. So no, apple isn’t right here

shwouchk 2y ago

Not sure how the apple rant is related to the post but; I use syncthing (via mobius sync) on my iphone and am quite happy with it. It seems to be OK with enough background syncs as it is, but to top it off i added a shortcut that keeps the app in the foreground while the phone is charging and im always up to date, pretty much instantly. Used to keep a couple hundred gb in sync that way (books, papers, org files, passwords, etc). Not affiliated with the product.

sneak 2y ago
It always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when opportunists charge money for software they didn’t produce, simply by capitalizing on the fact that it’s difficult and annoying to sideload on iPhones.
- shwouchk 2y ago
  It’s a one time $5 fee, integrates with the files app and generally has a few features that are not part of the base OSS app, such as the background syncs. It also sometimes gets affected by bugs that are not do not affect the “vanilla” syncthing, which takes some non-zero time to resolve and which indicate there is some effort going into creating this “port”. That took some time for the dev to create and would take me at least an hour of my time to reproduce, for which im happy to exchange $5. I could probably set up an ST instance inside iSH but it won’t work as smoothly, or create a native port myself, but I would rather not and feel thus is a fair exchange. Of course, I would welcome and am waiting for the release of your alternative free version. Until this time I’ll take your comment as yet another “i hate apple” post. Judging by your comment I suppose you don’t use generic drugs or any products based on expired patents not by the original patent inventor.
  - sneak 2y ago
    I cannot enter into the Apple Developer Program, or I would have released a lot of free builds of f/oss iOS apps already. Sadly Apple requires doxxing yourself to publish apps, which IMO is a human rights violation. You also need to provide a working phone number to be able to install even free apps on a phone or tablet you have already purchased. These policies stand directly in opposition to their stated value that “privacy is a human right”. The time of forced side loading support cannot come soon enough. > Of course, I would welcome and am waiting for the release of your alternative free version. Until this time I’ll take your comment as yet another “i hate apple” post. In my home a few minutes ago I just re-hung a framed, signed, and numbered print of some of Susan Kare’s pixel art for the original Macintosh System 1.0. It’s a common misconception that I hate Apple, but nothing could be further from the truth. Of course, you are free to continue believing incorrect things. :) FWIW, I paid the $5 and have Möbius Sync Pro installed on my phone. But, as a Syncthing contributor, fuck them. (Separately, it doesn’t even work right, whilst iCloud does, because of Apple’s anticompetitive bias against third party apps replicating OS functionality.) > Judging by your comment I suppose you don’t use generic drugs or any products based on expired patents not by the original patent inventor. I don’t believe in the concept of intellectual property. You misunderstand where I’m coming from. It’s a dick move to profit directly off the misfortune or hard work of others, which is precisely what the Möbius Sync authors are doing. It has nothing to do with patents or copyrights or what is or is not legally permitted to be done with the code. You will note that I release all of my own software into the public domain, not under copyleft licenses. People should be free to be a dick, just as I’m free to point it out.

touggourt 2y ago

One of my employees use Nextcloud on its iPhone and it works fast and well.

solarkraft 2y ago

Syncthing (via Möbius Sync) works quite (surispsibgly!) well on iOS, but there are still many paper cuts. I‘d have hoped the DMA would have forced platforms to be decoupled from services.

jeroenhd 2y ago
Legally, Apple must not provide its own services with an advantage over the competition. I think the background sync restrictions are a DMA violation legally speaking. Give the EU some time, I'm sure there'll be a lawsuit about iOS doing this stuff some day.