5 ms·

If the Brazilian court had ordered a ban of far-left users, the reporting on this would have been very different.

by cubefox 2y ago

dgfitz 2y ago
[flagged]
- AzzyHN 2y ago
  The "fight" between Twitter and Brazil is inherently political. That's like saying Bethesda ruined Fallout by making it "woke" and "anti-American"
giraffe_lady 2y ago
Because he wouldn't have fought it?
Spivak 2y ago
This is a not very useful breakdown of the political situation. There is only one thing that is required to have a democracy, and that is the peaceful transition of power. And that requires that people have to accept the results of elections. Elections don't have to be fair. They don't have to be free from corruption. They don't have to be accurate, lord knows the elections in the United States are horribly skewed due to the fact that we have such low voter turnout. If you wanted to accurately assess who would be the best elected official in a given position you could do a lot better by just getting a board of statisticians and sampling the hell out of your electorate. But the thing that is important is that we go through a process, that process terminates, and we go with whatever it says the winner was. If it was a bad choice c'est la vie I'll see you again next election and if there was shady shit that happened, we can address that in the interim. I don't give a shit what the far right views on like immigration or abortion or taxes are. I can disagree with them, but that's not like an existential threat to the country. What is in the US is the fact that we have a candidate for president who was still not conceded his loss in the 2020 election and is running again on the same premise that the elections are rigged. Like the bar is so low here.
- _3u10 2y ago
  It’s completely legal within a democracy not to accept the results of an election. Right now the sitting president of the US is refusing to accept the results of an election which Lula accepts.
- ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
  >What is in the US is the fact that we have a candidate for president who was still not conceded his loss in the 2020 election and is running again on the same premise that the elections are rigged. I was thinking I had heard he conceded recently, but when I looked it up I found that he conceded before the inauguration: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-biden-us-capitol-electoral-college-insurrection/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-biden-us-capit...
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    He only conceded his loss in the immediate wake of the failed January 6 insurrection. More recently, in the presidential debate, he has essentially recanted his concession.
- tbrownaw 2y ago
  > There is only one thing that is required to have a democracy, and that is the peaceful transition of power. And that requires that people have to accept the results of elections. Elections don't have to be fair. They don't have to be free from corruption. They don't have to be accurate "Democracy" means "rule by the people". If the people are told who their new rulers are rather than choosing who their new rulers are (or even ruling directly, I think there are a couple places that still have direct democracies), then it's not a democracy regardless of how orderly the transitions are.
- didntcheck 2y ago
  An important part of democracy is that it proves its legitimacy to the citizens. Threatening citizens who are skeptical or critical of the process (whether reasonably or not) is the only thing here which is a threat to democracy
_3u10 2y ago
100% just look at Lula's acceptance of the Venezuelan elections, is Brazil doing anything to clamp down on far left support for Venezuela?
- miltava 2y ago
  Could you share references for this claim? As far as I could find, Brazil haven’t recognized the results of the elections. [1] https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/blogs/americo-martins/internacional/brasil-mantem-posicao-e-nao-vai-reconhecer-suposta-vitoria-de-maduro-sem-atas-eleitorais/ https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/blogs/americo-martins/internaci... [2] https://g1.globo.com/google/amp/jornal-nacional/noticia/2024/08/15/lula-diz-pela-primeira-vez-que-nao-reconhece-a-vitoria-de-nicolas-maduro-na-venezuela.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/google/amp/jornal-nacional/noticia/2024... [3] https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/blogs/americo-martins/internacional/brasil-e-colombia-nao-reconhecem-vitoria-de-maduro-e-cobram-divulgacao-de-atas/ https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/blogs/americo-martins/internaci...
  - _3u10 2y ago
    Lula recognized the equally bs 2018 elections, it’s not like Maduro won that election either. https://elpais.com/america/2024-03-02/nicolas-maduro-asegura-ante-lula-que-en-el-segundo-semestre-habra-elecciones-en-venezuela.html https://elpais.com/america/2024-03-02/nicolas-maduro-asegura...
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    Lula rolled out the red carpet for the venezuelan dictator months into his mandate, welcomed him onto our soil with full military honors. Everybody knows he's a friend of Maduro and many other communist dictators. Despite this, the judge involved in the Twitter case used to censor any speech associating him with dictators as "fake news". If he hasn't recognized the results by now, it's because the situation there must be so bad the political repercussions of doing so will be too great even for him. Notably, he hasn't condemned his dictator buddy either. He's not saying much of anything and letting it play out. His silence on the matter also speaks volumes.
- luizfzs 2y ago
jrflowers 2y ago
This is an interesting thought. If a completely different thing had happened then the conversation might be different. People are too often focused on what did happen and miss the importance of things that did not happen at all
- pyuser583 2y ago
  The things that didn’t happen often say more than the things that did.
  - jrflowers 2y ago
    Exactly. This is why it is very upsetting when anyone brings up the people that died in the Challenger explosion but fail to mention Big Bird, who did not, as if there is something that makes those astronauts more important to the story. https://www.history.com/news/big-bird-challenger-disaster-nasa-sesame-street https://www.history.com/news/big-bird-challenger-disaster-na...
- didntcheck 2y ago
  How would it be completely different? You're confirming that you see the left as more deserving of speech than the right
  - jrflowers 2y ago
    > You're confirming that you see the left as more deserving of speech than the right No I’m not.
    - didntcheck 2y ago
      In that case the situations would be very similar, and the reporting should be essentially the same, with some word substitutions. If not, this would be indicative of double standards, which I'm glad you oppose
      - 2y ago
didntcheck 2y ago
Likewise, this contrasts with the (rightful) criticism of Google and other companies censoring anti-government material in China - which could also be described as "company complies with local laws"
archagon 2y ago
Is there any point to this comment other than rage bait?
vitorgrs 2y ago
Fun fact: Brazilian court did. PCO (Communist party) was banned from Twitter in 2022.

If the Brazilian court had ordered a ban of far-left users, the reporting on this would have been very different.

dgfitz 2y ago

[flagged]

AzzyHN 2y ago
The "fight" between Twitter and Brazil is inherently political. That's like saying Bethesda ruined Fallout by making it "woke" and "anti-American"

giraffe_lady 2y ago

Because he wouldn't have fought it?

Spivak 2y ago

This is a not very useful breakdown of the political situation. There is only one thing that is required to have a democracy, and that is the peaceful transition of power. And that requires that people have to accept the results of elections. Elections don't have to be fair. They don't have to be free from corruption. They don't have to be accurate, lord knows the elections in the United States are horribly skewed due to the fact that we have such low voter turnout. If you wanted to accurately assess who would be the best elected official in a given position you could do a lot better by just getting a board of statisticians and sampling the hell out of your electorate. But the thing that is important is that we go through a process, that process terminates, and we go with whatever it says the winner was. If it was a bad choice c'est la vie I'll see you again next election and if there was shady shit that happened, we can address that in the interim. I don't give a shit what the far right views on like immigration or abortion or taxes are. I can disagree with them, but that's not like an existential threat to the country. What is in the US is the fact that we have a candidate for president who was still not conceded his loss in the 2020 election and is running again on the same premise that the elections are rigged. Like the bar is so low here.

_3u10 2y ago
It’s completely legal within a democracy not to accept the results of an election. Right now the sitting president of the US is refusing to accept the results of an election which Lula accepts.
ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
>What is in the US is the fact that we have a candidate for president who was still not conceded his loss in the 2020 election and is running again on the same premise that the elections are rigged. I was thinking I had heard he conceded recently, but when I looked it up I found that he conceded before the inauguration: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-biden-us-capitol-electoral-college-insurrection/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-biden-us-capit...
- jcranmer 2y ago
  He only conceded his loss in the immediate wake of the failed January 6 insurrection. More recently, in the presidential debate, he has essentially recanted his concession.
tbrownaw 2y ago
> There is only one thing that is required to have a democracy, and that is the peaceful transition of power. And that requires that people have to accept the results of elections. Elections don't have to be fair. They don't have to be free from corruption. They don't have to be accurate "Democracy" means "rule by the people". If the people are told who their new rulers are rather than choosing who their new rulers are (or even ruling directly, I think there are a couple places that still have direct democracies), then it's not a democracy regardless of how orderly the transitions are.
didntcheck 2y ago
An important part of democracy is that it proves its legitimacy to the citizens. Threatening citizens who are skeptical or critical of the process (whether reasonably or not) is the only thing here which is a threat to democracy

_3u10 2y ago

100% just look at Lula's acceptance of the Venezuelan elections, is Brazil doing anything to clamp down on far left support for Venezuela?

miltava 2y ago
Could you share references for this claim? As far as I could find, Brazil haven’t recognized the results of the elections. [1] https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/blogs/americo-martins/internacional/brasil-mantem-posicao-e-nao-vai-reconhecer-suposta-vitoria-de-maduro-sem-atas-eleitorais/ https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/blogs/americo-martins/internaci... [2] https://g1.globo.com/google/amp/jornal-nacional/noticia/2024/08/15/lula-diz-pela-primeira-vez-que-nao-reconhece-a-vitoria-de-nicolas-maduro-na-venezuela.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/google/amp/jornal-nacional/noticia/2024... [3] https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/blogs/americo-martins/internacional/brasil-e-colombia-nao-reconhecem-vitoria-de-maduro-e-cobram-divulgacao-de-atas/ https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/blogs/americo-martins/internaci...
- _3u10 2y ago
  Lula recognized the equally bs 2018 elections, it’s not like Maduro won that election either. https://elpais.com/america/2024-03-02/nicolas-maduro-asegura-ante-lula-que-en-el-segundo-semestre-habra-elecciones-en-venezuela.html https://elpais.com/america/2024-03-02/nicolas-maduro-asegura...
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  Lula rolled out the red carpet for the venezuelan dictator months into his mandate, welcomed him onto our soil with full military honors. Everybody knows he's a friend of Maduro and many other communist dictators. Despite this, the judge involved in the Twitter case used to censor any speech associating him with dictators as "fake news". If he hasn't recognized the results by now, it's because the situation there must be so bad the political repercussions of doing so will be too great even for him. Notably, he hasn't condemned his dictator buddy either. He's not saying much of anything and letting it play out. His silence on the matter also speaks volumes.
luizfzs 2y ago

jrflowers 2y ago

This is an interesting thought. If a completely different thing had happened then the conversation might be different. People are too often focused on what did happen and miss the importance of things that did not happen at all

pyuser583 2y ago
The things that didn’t happen often say more than the things that did.
- jrflowers 2y ago
  Exactly. This is why it is very upsetting when anyone brings up the people that died in the Challenger explosion but fail to mention Big Bird, who did not, as if there is something that makes those astronauts more important to the story. https://www.history.com/news/big-bird-challenger-disaster-nasa-sesame-street https://www.history.com/news/big-bird-challenger-disaster-na...
didntcheck 2y ago
How would it be completely different? You're confirming that you see the left as more deserving of speech than the right
- jrflowers 2y ago
  > You're confirming that you see the left as more deserving of speech than the right No I’m not.
  - didntcheck 2y ago
    In that case the situations would be very similar, and the reporting should be essentially the same, with some word substitutions. If not, this would be indicative of double standards, which I'm glad you oppose
    - 2y ago

didntcheck 2y ago

Likewise, this contrasts with the (rightful) criticism of Google and other companies censoring anti-government material in China - which could also be described as "company complies with local laws"

archagon 2y ago

Is there any point to this comment other than rage bait?

vitorgrs 2y ago

Fun fact: Brazilian court did. PCO (Communist party) was banned from Twitter in 2022.