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Presumably as Porsche is not about efficient transportation; it is about emotion, driving as an experience, making a statement, etc. Chances are there will be
by lb1lf 2y ago
Presumably as Porsche is not about efficient transportation; it is about emotion, driving as an experience, making a statement, etc.
Chances are there will be - or, at least, Porsche appears to bet there will be - a sufficient number of well-heeled enthusiasts who prefer the sound, smell and vibration of an ICE to the quiet performance of an electric motor.
I am really curious to see how this pans out in a generation or two - I suspect nostalgia plays a significant role in the 'performance cars should have ICEs' mindset, so what happens when the generation who grew up on EVs enter middle age and have the disposable income for a performance car?
As for the rest of us, if, say, 1 in 1000 cars in a couple of decades' time burns fossil fuels, it is hardly going to be a nuisance. I'd be more worried (If I owned an ICE-powered vehicle) about the infrastructure needed to get the fossil fuels I needed in the tank.
(Glancing anxiously over at my 1949 S1 Land Rover (1.6l I4 petrol) and 1981 Land Cruiser 42 (3.4l I4 diesel) - neither of which are performance cars by any stretch of the imagination! The 3B engine in the Land Cruiser will merrily chug along on just about anything vaguely combustible you pour in the tank, though.)
- sheepdestroyer 2y ago[flagged]
- lb1lf 2y agoOh, they will be, no worries - doubly so as the fuel they need goes from being a necessary evil of civilization to a niche product for enthusiasts. There's going to be along tail of ICE vehicles out there, though - say, I have a tractor on my farm (which is not being worked commercially, it is basically an expensive and time-consuming hobby seeing as my wife's family has tilled this plot of land since the dark ages. Literally.) Anyway, even if diesel prices soar to $25/l (That's $100/gal for the metrically challenged), with our current usage, it will still be cheaper to buy diesel at that cost than to invest in a new, EV tractor. Hence I can't see that tractor going anywhere anytime soon.
- wiseowise 2y agoThey’re already heavily taxed. But why vilified?
- Tade0 2y agoThere's a huge overlap between people who seek out such experiences and those who drive recklessly and modify their exhausts.
- mistercheph 2y agoOr maybe you're not particularly interested in cars or the people who are interested in cars and you can't tell the difference / assume all of "those" people are the same,
- Tade0 2y agoI actually am - mostly the engineering part of them though and to me, to paraphrase a prominent local motoring journalist, motoring is dead - EVs are a transition propulsion method and the end state is no motoring as we currently understand it and maintaining a car broadly considered lame. The only people I've met who are car enthusiasts and don't go for the reckless/loud style of driving are people like my friend - a car mechanic who managed to form a single, road worthy Nissan Z31 from two defunct halves.
- aziaziazi 2y agoA tax can help common infrastructures (building road) or limit something (cigarettes price) Some people think the ICE car tax(es) already in place are not sufficient compared to the damage they cause. To reduce usage, both tax and public opinion (shaming, vilifying) works great. It’s regrettable the efforts only focus on a car motors, the most dangerous property of a car is it’s weight (and emissions depends on that weight).
- wiseowise 2y agoThe cars in question are luxury cars that are dime a dozen. I understand heavily taxing ordinary ICE cars, but why luxury ones?
- inglor_cz 2y agoYour proposals are a bit contradictory. If you heavily tax something, it becomes a money source for the government; does it then make sense to try to extinguish said activity through artificial social aversion? Also, whatever is vilified by the government, but stays legal or at least feasible, will act as a magnet for the counterculture. If you really hate something, just propose an outright ban. It would work for Porsches; no one can secretly grow a Porsche in his backyard.
- pokerface_86 2y agoyou must be european
- sheepdestroyer 2y agoMuricah much, or just trolling ? I though that was not the style here
- pokerface_86 2y agoi’m not particularly supportive of people who think fun needs to be vilified and taxed out of existence. it just so happens that this mindset is common among europeans who will never be able to afford a nice vehicle
- chii 2y agoWhy should something be heavily vilified and taxed simply because you personally dislike it?
- xattt 2y agoIt’s not vilified. It’s the recovery of environmental costs associated with ICEs as well as subsidizing a lower barrier to entry for EVs.
- arresin 2y agoBecause it’s a dead-end tech that’s holding us back and destroying the place where we all live. If you insist on pursuing it for your own pleasure, knowing what we all know now, you may be a villain.
- chii 2y agobut the grandparent poster's problem isn't with ICE itself, but with "emotion, driving as an experience" etc. In other words, the grandparent poster's argument is merely that people shouldn't be basing decisions on their (flawed) emotional attachment to driving as an experience, and would like such to be shamed and vilified. This is a moralistic argument. It has nothing to do with environmentalism, but is using climate change as a platform to push a personal agenda or world view. In other words, it's a woke argument.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoMost emissions come from grid energy. The greens cancelled nuclear and were the real villains in the end.
- pkphilip 2y agoThere are plenty of place around the world where there isn't sufficient capacity in the grid even for powering the houses.. let alone EVs
- _factor 2y agoIt’s amazing how much the luxury car industry has advertised what is essentially a shaking and noise complement to going fast. The “smooth” revs. The “visceral” feel. The “connection” to the road. It’s just a few metal cylinders going up and down real fast, tuned to sound nice in a packaged product. It’s like brainwashing. Impressive really. I like going to the track when I can, but that’s a bit different. The statement is the work you’ve put into your car, not how “exclusive” your statement is.
- 123yawaworht456 2y agopeople who drive expensive cars don't care about twitter opinions.
- cbeach 2y ago> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.
- wiseowise 2y agoInstant torque is cool, but goddamn it is soulless.
- teo_zero 2y agoI'm sure they said the same when they saw the first photographs and compared them with paintings.
- stonogo 2y agoyou might note that people still paint.
- lowdownbutter 2y agoWell that also needs to be heavily vilified and taxed.
- avereveard 2y agoAh yes we should all live in a gray bloc working in a gray factory until the end of time Vilifying a d taxing any luxury not only is a ludicrous position, it will only make inequality worse. Its not like the 0.1% will renoujce to it, and taxes don't matter to them.
- wiseowise 2y agoThe parent comment you're replying to is a sarcasm.
- svara 2y agoIf you're into that exotic hobby long after ICE cars are obsolete, you'll need to purchase synthetic fuel for it or purchase the equivalent amount of CO2 direct air capture. Sounds okay to me.