7 ms·

ADHD headband treats symptoms in 20 minutes per day

44 points by ludovicianul 2y ago

CharlieDigital 2y ago
Reminds me of a fascinating podcast by Radiolab - 9 Volt Nirvana: https://radiolab.org/podcast/9-volt-nirvana/transcript https://radiolab.org/podcast/9-volt-nirvana/transcript > SOREN: So what Sally had stumbled into was something called TDCS. It stands for 'transcranial direct current stimulation.' The idea is you take a couple little electrodes, you place them on your scalp, connect it with wires to a battery. You send a little bit of electricity into your brain, and then all kinds of things happen if you believe the claims. ... > MICHAEL WEISEND: So almost every person that we put this on says they get into what they call a "state of flow," where they don't recognize that the time is going by, they're just, boom, boom, boom, boom. ... > SALLY ADEE: And I was like, "Did you guys make it easier?" They're like, "No, same—same level." I'm like, "I think you guys made it easier."
emsixteen 2y ago
I am unbelievably skeptical to this and am having trouble believing this is anything other than quack stuff, but I don't have the personal skill or knowledge to make real sense of this – I'd need some real research presented rather than a marketing video. Anyone here able to help explain the head-zap-o-tron and how viable it is to a pleb like myself? Absolutely fascinating if it works, though.
blackoil 2y ago
What probability it is complete BS?
- alecsm 2y ago
  50-50
- simplyinfinity 2y ago
  tDCS seems to have some merit, according to research https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32418073/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32418073/ So this product doesn't completely strike me as snake oil.
- skywhopper 2y ago
  99%
lexicality 2y ago
As someone with severe ADHD who has been repeatedly told they need to try everything that's not medication (so much CBT), I am now deeply sceptical of every new supposed cure. A presumably extremely expensive headband that claims to be a "MRI in your pocket" and has an AI assistant to help you use it correctly seems like yet another scam preying on the disabled. I'll stick to the meds thanks.
- jacob_rezi 2y ago
  Coincidently, I was just reading Bad Blood
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  I think your instincts are good here. It's very telling that they secured funding to take product to market before completing comprehensive trials of the device. That's ass backwards from how legit medical devices are developed.
- GrantMoyer 2y ago
  CBT for ADHD!? Oh, that CBT.
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    I don't know why, but we have an off topic chat for our university computer science students - a field where there's a lot of autistic and adhd students, both diagnosed and undiagnosed - and God they're (or, we're) the kinkiest people I've met
    - ricc 2y ago
      The word "kinky" sounds so tame nowadays, especially with that news about Diddy...
  - JohnTHaller 2y ago
    Did you think it was Connecticut Bank and Trust?
bubblesnort 2y ago
The meds are basically speed. Epilepsy patients are told never to use speed, but then another doctor can diagnose AD(H)D and prescribe ritalin. I hope these new treatments work well, reduce side effects, and have less chance of interacting with other treatments.
- viraptor 2y ago
  > The meds are basically speed. There's a number of different stimulants and non-stimulants. "The meds" are not a thing.
  - bubblesnort 2y ago
    Care to elaborate? I've just looked it up to see if things changed, but all I see is Ritalin / Concerta, Strattera, and Dextroamphetamine. There might be others, but they'd either be off-label or aren't reimbursed by insurance. Where in the world are other meds prescribed and covered?
    - viraptor 2y ago
      On the non-stimulant side there's also atomoxetine and guanfacine, but they're not commonly used yet. And there's weed which is prescribed in some places. You can also find studies on other things which you can buy without prescription, but they're not officially approved / fully checked for safety.
      - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
        atomoxetine, while not a direct stimulant, is a norepinepherine reuptake inhibitor. That is, it makes the speed you already have stay around longer. And Guanfacine is certainly a stimulant. It is an agonist of the α2A-adrenergic receptor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanfacine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanfacine
        viraptor 2y ago
raidicy 2y ago
I hate having my hopes played with. To say that I'm skeptical is an understatement.
fredgrott 2y ago
From what I know of ADHD in re-using my Biology and Chemistry knowledge to come up with a Nootropics stack that works... It would seem that this device is some quackery.... Why? Because ADHD hyperactivity is a loss of control not extra neuro activity...
- petercooper 2y ago
  A dysfunction in regulation can result from a lower than ideal amount of neural activity in various areas. This is why stimulants are often effective.
- skywhopper 2y ago
  You need to learn more about ADHD before spouting off in this forum.
yakcyll 2y ago
With the topics of ADHD and autism entering mainstream Internet conversations more often, I think it's kind of predictable that stuff like this will start showing up more regularly. Considering how much people can struggle with these issues, even in spite of proper medical care, it's safe to assume for the time being that this falls under the magic device category.
wg0 2y ago
One word comes to mind - "Juicero" [0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  I'm imagining the elevator pitch: "Like Juicero, but for your brain."
petercooper 2y ago
Is the technology inside this device likely to be relatively simple? It seems like an area that would naturally attract a lot of hackers running experiments, etc. Being able to be powered by a small enough battery to fit into a headset is also quite interesting considering the high level of power typically used in TMS.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Since there is no reason to think this works they can make it as complex or simple as they like and open source clones can do whatever.
lewdwig 2y ago
These guys went on Shark Tank, and received no offers because their fine print says that it has “no medical benefits” and is not backed up by any peer-reviewed scientific evidence. This sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
- 93po 2y ago
  shark tank takes 10% of a company just for them being on the show, last i heard, which is really funny to me
varispeed 2y ago
This kind of snake oil stuff should be illegal as it only enables abuse of people with such condition. I can easily picture this: "concerned relative / partner"> You could be much better if only you tried this <insert name of magic cure / device> person with condition> I have researched this, these things don't work, it is a waste of time and money. "concerned relative / partner"> No, you just don't want to get better! I am really losing patience with you. Why don't you want to get help!?
- aniviacat 2y ago
  > No, you just don't want to get better! I am really losing patience with you. Why don't you want to get help!? I do not understand why people choose someone who says stuff like this as their partner.
  - Ensorceled 2y ago
    There a lot of people who say "I love you just the way you are", but think "I can mold them into my perfect partner".
  - VoreLuka 2y ago
    Abusive relationships exist, also its not just grey and white. Oftentimes at the beginning of a relationship everything seems fine and happy but as time goes on the bad stuff shows up, one partner can't handle the others adhd sympoms and this kind of conversation can show up Besides your parent mentioned relatives as well. You don't choose those
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - willcipriano 2y ago
    Often these "unchangeable" personal faults are revealed after a commitment like marriage, children or signing a lease together. Now all of the sudden you are a full time in home aide for your former partner. As for why the person with the problems doesn't leave, they don't want to have to spend a few months/years as a contributing partner to trick someone into caring for them again.
simplyinfinity 2y ago
I'm also going to stick to the meds, as they work very well for me, with that said tDCS seems to have some merit, according to research [0]. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of data with larger sample sizes yet. So this product doesn't completely strike me as snake oil, but i have my reservations until more data is available or at least FDA approved [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32418073/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32418073/
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  You might want to know that ADHD meds may increase the risk of Parkinson's. This is something that needs to be spoken about more. https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medications-parkinsons-disease-dopamine/ https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medications-parkinsons-dise... I have another comment here that explains how this may happen and why blasting EMFs in your brain will do the same thing. If I had ADHD the first thing I would try is B6 in the form of P5P: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/ There are many genetic and environmental causes to ADHD though, so I am in no way saying that a B6 issue is a cure all. But if you have high Homocysteine it could be a sign you need B6. https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9067/11/4/497 https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9067/11/4/497
  - viraptor 2y ago
    It's fun to find grey/read links at random in these threads. B6 worked for me and adding B2 was also beneficial. But make sure to read about B6 toxicity as well. And you're going to freak out your doctor if you tell them.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      Thanks. By taking B6 in the form of P5P you reduce the need to push the Pyridoxal Kinase enzyme (which uses zinc) and you will more than likely not have any neurological side effects. And you will also save your ATP for better things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxal_kinase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxal_kinase
TekMol 2y ago
While there isn't ... clinical studies Wouldn't one do studies with a prototype before building a polished product, a website, YouTube videos etc?
- soco 2y ago
  When you are pretty sure some investors will shower you in startup money because AI, why bother with the complications of the real world? You're building a money sink, not a product.
- methou 2y ago
  > The device delivers light electrical stimulation to the prefrontal cortex Literally means tDCS or tACS, there are too many funded researches on this actually, like way too many: https://reporter.nih.gov/search/IpqXmwaGiEebldke_6C2hw/projects https://reporter.nih.gov/search/IpqXmwaGiEebldke_6C2hw/proje... https://reporter.nih.gov/search/QS9jFRFJuEWcukEIfuJ_Yg/projects https://reporter.nih.gov/search/QS9jFRFJuEWcukEIfuJ_Yg/proje... I remember when I was in the field, it was one of the hotter topics in the neurosciences quite some time ago (~2010).
- tux3 2y ago
  The kind of new-age companies that sell quantum armband infused with shaman crystals — or whatever it is this time — you tend not to see on ClinicalTrials.gov
bearjaws 2y ago
This isn't FDA approved at all, it might as well be a supplement. Which is to say it likely doesn't help at all.
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  I think you are wrong to malign supplements. ADHD is known in some cases to be reversed by B6. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/
DreaminDani 2y ago
For those thinking any technology might be a "cure" for a specific disability, I highly recommend checking out the book Against Technoableism by Ashley Shew [1]. It really helps articulate the reasoning behind "nothing about us without us" in the context of "life changing" technology - including snakeoil bullshit like this. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Against-Technoableism-Rethinking-Improvement-Norton/dp/1324036664 https://www.amazon.com/Against-Technoableism-Rethinking-Impr...
m101010 2y ago
I know that there is a lot of research going into transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) and transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS). For some diseases it has been shown to be effective. However, for ADHD - as far as i can see - the studies don't agree and it is preliminary for any conclusions [1]. From [1]: Finally, a PubMed search (keywords: tDCS AND attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder) identified 24 papers, including 2 original clinical studies (single-session studies) and 80 patients. One study (60 patients) did not find significant differences between active and sham tDCS regarding the effect of bihemispheric tDCS of the DLFPC (left anode + right cathode) on behavioral performance in go/no-go tasks (Cosmo et al., 2015). Conversely, the other study (20 patients) showed that anodal tDCS of the left DLPFC (with right supraorbital cathode) increased the proportion of correct responses in go/no-go tasks, whereas cathodal tDCS of the left DLPFC increased the inhibition accuracy (Soltaninejad et al., 2016). Obviously, reported results are too preliminary to make any recommendation for the use of tDCS in all these psychiatric conditions. [1] Evidence-based guidelines on the therapeutic use of transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1388245716306344 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S138824571...)
skywhopper 2y ago
I don’t necessarily discount that the underlying premise of this headband (electrical brain stimulation) may have some positive impact on some ADHD symptoms in some people, this product rings of overengineered design-by-committee VC-leveraged scam product. First of all, “MRI in your pocket” is just complete nonsense. Brain wave monitoring has nothing to do with MRIs. MRIs have never been shown to have any relevance to detecting or monitoring ADHD symptoms. And this headband and the associated app could never provide any MRI-like features. Secondly, the included AI assistant screams of “we added this to appease our investors so we could get another round of funding”. The article doesn’t detail how the AI would interact with the headband anyway. Rather, given that the AI assistant generates “user-friendly, personalized to-do lists”, it sounds like this is just another “you just need to make better todo lists” low-effort ChatGPT wrapper from neurotypical busybodies who fundamentally misunderstand ADHD in the most insulting ways. The article’s summary, “It's essentially a brain-imaging device for personal use”, is just a flat-out, irresponsible lie.
mystified5016 2y ago
I'm reminded of the "magnet therapy" my grandmother was given for her gallbladder cancer in the 80s or 90s.
Ensorceled 2y ago
Ah, the standard "you just need to work on it" trope for ADHD treatment with a serving of "neurons that fire together wire together" and "this device monitors your brain exercises so you can see your executive function get stronger" If you could ACTUALLY make your executive function stronger this way, all of these productivity hacks ADHD sufferers use would also have had some kind of lasting effect.
FollowingTheDao 2y ago
This is going to lead to horrible results. Note the link between ADHD and Parkison's: https://parkinsonsdisease.net/news/adhd-increased-risk https://parkinsonsdisease.net/news/adhd-increased-risk These are both Dopamine deficient disorders. By using EMFs to stimulate the brain you will not increase the amount of Dopamine created, you will only increase the Dopamine that is released. This will lead to longer term issues, and I fully believe, an increase in the risk of Parkinson's or other dopa related disorders. Will it help symptoms? Yes. But so does Ritalin and so does Levdopa for Parkinson's. And it is well know that Levdopa makes Parkinson's worse in the long run for many people by accelerating the loss of nigrostriatal dopamine nerve terminals: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa033447 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa033447 "The clinical data suggest that levodopa either slows the progression of Parkinson's disease or has a prolonged effect on the symptoms of the disease. In contrast, the neuroimaging data suggest either that levodopa accelerates the loss of nigrostriatal dopamine nerve terminals or that its pharmacologic effects modify the dopamine transporter. The potential long-term effects of levodopa on Parkinson's disease remain uncertain." And Ritalin is known to increase the risk of PArkinon's: https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medications-parkinsons-disease-dopamine/ https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medications-parkinsons-dise... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36593727/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36593727/ Why is this? Because in these people the damage is caused by the rapid metabolism of Dopamine and the creation of H2O2, an oxidative stressor that destroys the neurons. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4135313/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4135313/ So these people would likely do better by focusing on reducing the oxidative stress of increased H2O2. But back to ADHD: ADHD is known to be linked to lower dopamine creation. To increase dopamine where and when the brain needs it you need to stimulate the pathway that makes Dopamine. This is a simple pathway. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Eirini-Kalliolia/publication/243970581/figure/fig1/AS:203205951660032@1425459482235/he-biosynthetic-pathway-of-dopamine-Tetrahydrobiopeterin-BH4-is-generated-from.png https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Eirini-Kalliolia/public... The enzymes GCH1 and PTPS need zinc to work. BH4 (Tetrahydrobipterin) is very sensitive to oxidative stress, TH needs Iron, and AADC (DDC) needs B6. The genetic disorder, AADC Deficiency, leads to ADHD symptoms. https://aadcnews.com/columns/how-understanding-adhd-helps-us-manage-aadc-deficiency-issues/ https://aadcnews.com/columns/how-understanding-adhd-helps-us... If you have a genetic polymorphism in any of these genes it will make you more likely to have lower dopamine. And if you are deficient in any of the vitamin cofactors you will also be deficient in dopamine. IMH(well researched)O, ADHD is a polygenetic and dietary disorder that can be reversed with nutrition and limiting the release of dopamine (like no coffee, no alcohol, no sugar, etc). Personalized Medicine is the only way anyone will have any relief from ADHD. For each person there are different genetic and environmental causes. EMF Stimulation if trying to find a magic bullet for a complex and individual disorder and it will lead to worse outcomes.
bilsbie 2y ago
How does it work? I read 75% of the article?
reliablereason 2y ago
How can something that feels like nothing change how you feel and act? The answer: It can't, electrocuting your brain might work for some types of ADHD (maybe for example for the people who have a type of ADHD caused by tight cranial muscles). But I severely doubt it will cure ADHD caused by more complex things like inflammation or genetic changes to dopamine synapses or one of the other (uncountable many) reasons that can be behind an individuals ADHD symptoms.
jijijijij 2y ago
This isn't some new, or innovative technology. Transcranial direct-current stimulation (tDSC) has been studied for a long time and there even is an active community of enthusiastic DIY experimentalists. tDSC is certainly interesting, but it is also inherently limited, evident by lack of praxis/application. If tDSC is proven effective for treating ADHD symptoms you can relatively easily have the same thing (probably better) as an opensource project, 3D printing and FOSS. Not going this route is kinda sus to me. Pretty sure this was a business looking for an idea, not the other way around. Probably targeted at TikTok diagnoses not eligible for controlled meds and clout-chasing "biohackers", who will gladly preach the good news through affiliate links. I doubt tDSC will ever beat stimulant medication, which is a cheap, safe and very effective treatment option, for almost a century. Some studies even show MRI evidence for long-term normalization of (young) ADHD brains with stimulant medication. Retarded formulations have a very low abuse potential. The biggest problem with these meds is legislation and stigma. And lately supply chain issues... Oh, and the advertised thing is most definitely not a "brain-imaging device" lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_direct-current_stimulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_direct-current_st... https://old.reddit.com/r/tDCS/ https://old.reddit.com/r/tDCS/
gxonatano 2y ago
Attention is a skill. You can train your attention like you train a muscle. There's a real proliferation, these days, of medical and chemical treatments for ADHD. And many of them really help people. But if your goal is to build muscle, maybe what you need isn't a steroid injection, but an exercise. While there are some new treatments for ADHD which show some promise, some of the best ways to train one's attention are the oldest. Zen Buddhism, for example, has been around for fifteen hundred years or so, and has a lot of evidence behind it. If you sit in zazen for a full sesshin, at around ten hours a day for ten days, you will undoubtedly start to develop strong powers of attention. But even ten minutes a day is effective.

44 points by ludovicianul 2y ago

Reminds me of a fascinating podcast by Radiolab - 9 Volt Nirvana: https://radiolab.org/podcast/9-volt-nirvana/transcript https://radiolab.org/podcast/9-volt-nirvana/transcript > SOREN: So what Sally had stumbled into was something called TDCS. It stands for 'transcranial direct current stimulation.' The idea is you take a couple little electrodes, you place them on your scalp, connect it with wires to a battery. You send a little bit of electricity into your brain, and then all kinds of things happen if you believe the claims. ... > MICHAEL WEISEND: So almost every person that we put this on says they get into what they call a "state of flow," where they don't recognize that the time is going by, they're just, boom, boom, boom, boom. ... > SALLY ADEE: And I was like, "Did you guys make it easier?" They're like, "No, same—same level." I'm like, "I think you guys made it easier."

emsixteen 2y ago

I am unbelievably skeptical to this and am having trouble believing this is anything other than quack stuff, but I don't have the personal skill or knowledge to make real sense of this – I'd need some real research presented rather than a marketing video. Anyone here able to help explain the head-zap-o-tron and how viable it is to a pleb like myself? Absolutely fascinating if it works, though.

blackoil 2y ago

What probability it is complete BS?

alecsm 2y ago
50-50
simplyinfinity 2y ago
tDCS seems to have some merit, according to research https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32418073/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32418073/ So this product doesn't completely strike me as snake oil.
skywhopper 2y ago
99%

lexicality 2y ago

As someone with severe ADHD who has been repeatedly told they need to try everything that's not medication (so much CBT), I am now deeply sceptical of every new supposed cure. A presumably extremely expensive headband that claims to be a "MRI in your pocket" and has an AI assistant to help you use it correctly seems like yet another scam preying on the disabled. I'll stick to the meds thanks.

jacob_rezi 2y ago
Coincidently, I was just reading Bad Blood
forgetfreeman 2y ago
I think your instincts are good here. It's very telling that they secured funding to take product to market before completing comprehensive trials of the device. That's ass backwards from how legit medical devices are developed.
GrantMoyer 2y ago
CBT for ADHD!? Oh, that CBT.
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  I don't know why, but we have an off topic chat for our university computer science students - a field where there's a lot of autistic and adhd students, both diagnosed and undiagnosed - and God they're (or, we're) the kinkiest people I've met
  - ricc 2y ago
    The word "kinky" sounds so tame nowadays, especially with that news about Diddy...
- JohnTHaller 2y ago
  Did you think it was Connecticut Bank and Trust?

bubblesnort 2y ago

The meds are basically speed. Epilepsy patients are told never to use speed, but then another doctor can diagnose AD(H)D and prescribe ritalin. I hope these new treatments work well, reduce side effects, and have less chance of interacting with other treatments.

viraptor 2y ago
> The meds are basically speed. There's a number of different stimulants and non-stimulants. "The meds" are not a thing.
- bubblesnort 2y ago
  Care to elaborate? I've just looked it up to see if things changed, but all I see is Ritalin / Concerta, Strattera, and Dextroamphetamine. There might be others, but they'd either be off-label or aren't reimbursed by insurance. Where in the world are other meds prescribed and covered?
  - viraptor 2y ago
    On the non-stimulant side there's also atomoxetine and guanfacine, but they're not commonly used yet. And there's weed which is prescribed in some places. You can also find studies on other things which you can buy without prescription, but they're not officially approved / fully checked for safety.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      atomoxetine, while not a direct stimulant, is a norepinepherine reuptake inhibitor. That is, it makes the speed you already have stay around longer. And Guanfacine is certainly a stimulant. It is an agonist of the α2A-adrenergic receptor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanfacine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanfacine
      - viraptor 2y ago

raidicy 2y ago

I hate having my hopes played with. To say that I'm skeptical is an understatement.

fredgrott 2y ago

From what I know of ADHD in re-using my Biology and Chemistry knowledge to come up with a Nootropics stack that works... It would seem that this device is some quackery.... Why? Because ADHD hyperactivity is a loss of control not extra neuro activity...

petercooper 2y ago
A dysfunction in regulation can result from a lower than ideal amount of neural activity in various areas. This is why stimulants are often effective.
skywhopper 2y ago
You need to learn more about ADHD before spouting off in this forum.

yakcyll 2y ago

With the topics of ADHD and autism entering mainstream Internet conversations more often, I think it's kind of predictable that stuff like this will start showing up more regularly. Considering how much people can struggle with these issues, even in spite of proper medical care, it's safe to assume for the time being that this falls under the magic device category.

wg0 2y ago

One word comes to mind - "Juicero" [0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero

CoastalCoder 2y ago
I'm imagining the elevator pitch: "Like Juicero, but for your brain."

petercooper 2y ago

Is the technology inside this device likely to be relatively simple? It seems like an area that would naturally attract a lot of hackers running experiments, etc. Being able to be powered by a small enough battery to fit into a headset is also quite interesting considering the high level of power typically used in TMS.

bluGill 2y ago
Since there is no reason to think this works they can make it as complex or simple as they like and open source clones can do whatever.

lewdwig 2y ago

These guys went on Shark Tank, and received no offers because their fine print says that it has “no medical benefits” and is not backed up by any peer-reviewed scientific evidence. This sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

93po 2y ago
shark tank takes 10% of a company just for them being on the show, last i heard, which is really funny to me

varispeed 2y ago

This kind of snake oil stuff should be illegal as it only enables abuse of people with such condition. I can easily picture this: "concerned relative / partner"> You could be much better if only you tried this <insert name of magic cure / device> person with condition> I have researched this, these things don't work, it is a waste of time and money. "concerned relative / partner"> No, you just don't want to get better! I am really losing patience with you. Why don't you want to get help!?

aniviacat 2y ago
> No, you just don't want to get better! I am really losing patience with you. Why don't you want to get help!? I do not understand why people choose someone who says stuff like this as their partner.
- Ensorceled 2y ago
  There a lot of people who say "I love you just the way you are", but think "I can mold them into my perfect partner".
- VoreLuka 2y ago
  Abusive relationships exist, also its not just grey and white. Oftentimes at the beginning of a relationship everything seems fine and happy but as time goes on the bad stuff shows up, one partner can't handle the others adhd sympoms and this kind of conversation can show up Besides your parent mentioned relatives as well. You don't choose those
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- willcipriano 2y ago
  Often these "unchangeable" personal faults are revealed after a commitment like marriage, children or signing a lease together. Now all of the sudden you are a full time in home aide for your former partner. As for why the person with the problems doesn't leave, they don't want to have to spend a few months/years as a contributing partner to trick someone into caring for them again.

simplyinfinity 2y ago

I'm also going to stick to the meds, as they work very well for me, with that said tDCS seems to have some merit, according to research [0]. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of data with larger sample sizes yet. So this product doesn't completely strike me as snake oil, but i have my reservations until more data is available or at least FDA approved [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32418073/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32418073/

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
You might want to know that ADHD meds may increase the risk of Parkinson's. This is something that needs to be spoken about more. https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medications-parkinsons-disease-dopamine/ https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medications-parkinsons-dise... I have another comment here that explains how this may happen and why blasting EMFs in your brain will do the same thing. If I had ADHD the first thing I would try is B6 in the form of P5P: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/ There are many genetic and environmental causes to ADHD though, so I am in no way saying that a B6 issue is a cure all. But if you have high Homocysteine it could be a sign you need B6. https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9067/11/4/497 https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9067/11/4/497
- viraptor 2y ago
  It's fun to find grey/read links at random in these threads. B6 worked for me and adding B2 was also beneficial. But make sure to read about B6 toxicity as well. And you're going to freak out your doctor if you tell them.
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    Thanks. By taking B6 in the form of P5P you reduce the need to push the Pyridoxal Kinase enzyme (which uses zinc) and you will more than likely not have any neurological side effects. And you will also save your ATP for better things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxal_kinase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxal_kinase

TekMol 2y ago

While there isn't ... clinical studies Wouldn't one do studies with a prototype before building a polished product, a website, YouTube videos etc?

soco 2y ago
When you are pretty sure some investors will shower you in startup money because AI, why bother with the complications of the real world? You're building a money sink, not a product.
methou 2y ago
> The device delivers light electrical stimulation to the prefrontal cortex Literally means tDCS or tACS, there are too many funded researches on this actually, like way too many: https://reporter.nih.gov/search/IpqXmwaGiEebldke_6C2hw/projects https://reporter.nih.gov/search/IpqXmwaGiEebldke_6C2hw/proje... https://reporter.nih.gov/search/QS9jFRFJuEWcukEIfuJ_Yg/projects https://reporter.nih.gov/search/QS9jFRFJuEWcukEIfuJ_Yg/proje... I remember when I was in the field, it was one of the hotter topics in the neurosciences quite some time ago (~2010).
tux3 2y ago
The kind of new-age companies that sell quantum armband infused with shaman crystals — or whatever it is this time — you tend not to see on ClinicalTrials.gov

bearjaws 2y ago

This isn't FDA approved at all, it might as well be a supplement. Which is to say it likely doesn't help at all.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
I think you are wrong to malign supplements. ADHD is known in some cases to be reversed by B6. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/

DreaminDani 2y ago

For those thinking any technology might be a "cure" for a specific disability, I highly recommend checking out the book Against Technoableism by Ashley Shew [1]. It really helps articulate the reasoning behind "nothing about us without us" in the context of "life changing" technology - including snakeoil bullshit like this. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Against-Technoableism-Rethinking-Improvement-Norton/dp/1324036664 https://www.amazon.com/Against-Technoableism-Rethinking-Impr...

m101010 2y ago

I know that there is a lot of research going into transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) and transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS). For some diseases it has been shown to be effective. However, for ADHD - as far as i can see - the studies don't agree and it is preliminary for any conclusions [1]. From [1]: Finally, a PubMed search (keywords: tDCS AND attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder) identified 24 papers, including 2 original clinical studies (single-session studies) and 80 patients. One study (60 patients) did not find significant differences between active and sham tDCS regarding the effect of bihemispheric tDCS of the DLFPC (left anode + right cathode) on behavioral performance in go/no-go tasks (Cosmo et al., 2015). Conversely, the other study (20 patients) showed that anodal tDCS of the left DLPFC (with right supraorbital cathode) increased the proportion of correct responses in go/no-go tasks, whereas cathodal tDCS of the left DLPFC increased the inhibition accuracy (Soltaninejad et al., 2016). Obviously, reported results are too preliminary to make any recommendation for the use of tDCS in all these psychiatric conditions. [1] Evidence-based guidelines on the therapeutic use of transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1388245716306344 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S138824571...)

skywhopper 2y ago

I don’t necessarily discount that the underlying premise of this headband (electrical brain stimulation) may have some positive impact on some ADHD symptoms in some people, this product rings of overengineered design-by-committee VC-leveraged scam product. First of all, “MRI in your pocket” is just complete nonsense. Brain wave monitoring has nothing to do with MRIs. MRIs have never been shown to have any relevance to detecting or monitoring ADHD symptoms. And this headband and the associated app could never provide any MRI-like features. Secondly, the included AI assistant screams of “we added this to appease our investors so we could get another round of funding”. The article doesn’t detail how the AI would interact with the headband anyway. Rather, given that the AI assistant generates “user-friendly, personalized to-do lists”, it sounds like this is just another “you just need to make better todo lists” low-effort ChatGPT wrapper from neurotypical busybodies who fundamentally misunderstand ADHD in the most insulting ways. The article’s summary, “It's essentially a brain-imaging device for personal use”, is just a flat-out, irresponsible lie.

mystified5016 2y ago

I'm reminded of the "magnet therapy" my grandmother was given for her gallbladder cancer in the 80s or 90s.

Ensorceled 2y ago

Ah, the standard "you just need to work on it" trope for ADHD treatment with a serving of "neurons that fire together wire together" and "this device monitors your brain exercises so you can see your executive function get stronger" If you could ACTUALLY make your executive function stronger this way, all of these productivity hacks ADHD sufferers use would also have had some kind of lasting effect.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago

This is going to lead to horrible results. Note the link between ADHD and Parkison's: https://parkinsonsdisease.net/news/adhd-increased-risk https://parkinsonsdisease.net/news/adhd-increased-risk These are both Dopamine deficient disorders. By using EMFs to stimulate the brain you will not increase the amount of Dopamine created, you will only increase the Dopamine that is released. This will lead to longer term issues, and I fully believe, an increase in the risk of Parkinson's or other dopa related disorders. Will it help symptoms? Yes. But so does Ritalin and so does Levdopa for Parkinson's. And it is well know that Levdopa makes Parkinson's worse in the long run for many people by accelerating the loss of nigrostriatal dopamine nerve terminals: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa033447 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa033447 "The clinical data suggest that levodopa either slows the progression of Parkinson's disease or has a prolonged effect on the symptoms of the disease. In contrast, the neuroimaging data suggest either that levodopa accelerates the loss of nigrostriatal dopamine nerve terminals or that its pharmacologic effects modify the dopamine transporter. The potential long-term effects of levodopa on Parkinson's disease remain uncertain." And Ritalin is known to increase the risk of PArkinon's: https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medications-parkinsons-disease-dopamine/ https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-medications-parkinsons-dise... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36593727/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36593727/ Why is this? Because in these people the damage is caused by the rapid metabolism of Dopamine and the creation of H2O2, an oxidative stressor that destroys the neurons. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4135313/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4135313/ So these people would likely do better by focusing on reducing the oxidative stress of increased H2O2. But back to ADHD: ADHD is known to be linked to lower dopamine creation. To increase dopamine where and when the brain needs it you need to stimulate the pathway that makes Dopamine. This is a simple pathway. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Eirini-Kalliolia/publication/243970581/figure/fig1/AS:203205951660032@1425459482235/he-biosynthetic-pathway-of-dopamine-Tetrahydrobiopeterin-BH4-is-generated-from.png https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Eirini-Kalliolia/public... The enzymes GCH1 and PTPS need zinc to work. BH4 (Tetrahydrobipterin) is very sensitive to oxidative stress, TH needs Iron, and AADC (DDC) needs B6. The genetic disorder, AADC Deficiency, leads to ADHD symptoms. https://aadcnews.com/columns/how-understanding-adhd-helps-us-manage-aadc-deficiency-issues/ https://aadcnews.com/columns/how-understanding-adhd-helps-us... If you have a genetic polymorphism in any of these genes it will make you more likely to have lower dopamine. And if you are deficient in any of the vitamin cofactors you will also be deficient in dopamine. IMH(well researched)O, ADHD is a polygenetic and dietary disorder that can be reversed with nutrition and limiting the release of dopamine (like no coffee, no alcohol, no sugar, etc). Personalized Medicine is the only way anyone will have any relief from ADHD. For each person there are different genetic and environmental causes. EMF Stimulation if trying to find a magic bullet for a complex and individual disorder and it will lead to worse outcomes.

bilsbie 2y ago

How does it work? I read 75% of the article?

reliablereason 2y ago

How can something that feels like nothing change how you feel and act? The answer: It can't, electrocuting your brain might work for some types of ADHD (maybe for example for the people who have a type of ADHD caused by tight cranial muscles). But I severely doubt it will cure ADHD caused by more complex things like inflammation or genetic changes to dopamine synapses or one of the other (uncountable many) reasons that can be behind an individuals ADHD symptoms.

jijijijij 2y ago

This isn't some new, or innovative technology. Transcranial direct-current stimulation (tDSC) has been studied for a long time and there even is an active community of enthusiastic DIY experimentalists. tDSC is certainly interesting, but it is also inherently limited, evident by lack of praxis/application. If tDSC is proven effective for treating ADHD symptoms you can relatively easily have the same thing (probably better) as an opensource project, 3D printing and FOSS. Not going this route is kinda sus to me. Pretty sure this was a business looking for an idea, not the other way around. Probably targeted at TikTok diagnoses not eligible for controlled meds and clout-chasing "biohackers", who will gladly preach the good news through affiliate links. I doubt tDSC will ever beat stimulant medication, which is a cheap, safe and very effective treatment option, for almost a century. Some studies even show MRI evidence for long-term normalization of (young) ADHD brains with stimulant medication. Retarded formulations have a very low abuse potential. The biggest problem with these meds is legislation and stigma. And lately supply chain issues... Oh, and the advertised thing is most definitely not a "brain-imaging device" lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_direct-current_stimulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_direct-current_st... https://old.reddit.com/r/tDCS/ https://old.reddit.com/r/tDCS/

gxonatano 2y ago

Attention is a skill. You can train your attention like you train a muscle. There's a real proliferation, these days, of medical and chemical treatments for ADHD. And many of them really help people. But if your goal is to build muscle, maybe what you need isn't a steroid injection, but an exercise. While there are some new treatments for ADHD which show some promise, some of the best ways to train one's attention are the oldest. Zen Buddhism, for example, has been around for fifteen hundred years or so, and has a lot of evidence behind it. If you sit in zazen for a full sesshin, at around ten hours a day for ten days, you will undoubtedly start to develop strong powers of attention. But even ten minutes a day is effective.