5 ms·

Crazy how Tesla vastly outperformed the govt investing billions into making 8 chargers

epistasis 2y ago
The government investment is just getting started with deployment, and frankly waiting to standardize on NACS instead of deploying with CCS was the smart choice, even if it delayed deployment by a year or so. NACS is so much better and having a single standard will smooth out so much in the future.
- kristopolous 2y ago
  But globally it's not a single standard. I believe with NACS, the US once again, sits alone, like it does so often. Basically every other country is doing CCS, the US was deploying CCS but then the government said "nah, let's go with this other one". I remember when I saw companies switching to it, I seemed to be the only person who thought it was a bad idea. On the side of International Standardization it's me, a couple crickets, and a bunch of people telling me how wrong I am.
  - tw04 2y ago
    That’s not really accurate. Europe uses CCS2 which is completely different and incompatible with CCS1 which is what we have in the US. Recently the US agreed to move to J3400 for dc fast charging with the expectation CCS will eventually go away. China uses a fourth standard GB/T which is incompatible with any of the above.
    - kristopolous 2y ago
      Right, China and Japan are different. Here's an older map: https://insideevs.com/news/333637/european-ccs-type-2-combo-2-conquers-world-ccs-combo-1-exclusive-to-north-america/ https://insideevs.com/news/333637/european-ccs-type-2-combo-... The US went NACS instead of CCS2. Canada and Mexico haven't made a commitment either way. It would be nice if we could work together and do just one in the same way that we didn't have to worry about fuel pump nozzle geometry being country specific with ICE cars.
      - tw04 2y ago
        > fuel pump nozzle geometry being country specific with ICE cars But they are? Diesel nozzles in the US are significantly larger than in Europe.
        kristopolous 2y ago
        I didn't know that about diesel. Regardless, I was hoping we could find some agreement globally .
        grzm 2y ago
        In my experience, there are at least two different Diesel nozzle sizes in the US, and both are different from gasoline nozzles. https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/car-care-repair-and-maintenance/common-myths-about-fuel-pumps/ https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/car-care-repair-and-main...
        toast0 2y ago
        US Diesel cars before about 2013? didn't really care aboit nozzle size. Some diesel pumps had the old standard nozzle size; some had the new, smaller, nozzle size intended for unleaded gasoline. VW started putting in anti-misfueling devices into their cars (via recall for mine), and then you could find which stations had unleaded sized nozzles because it was hard to use those. Presumably, nearly all of those have been replaced with the old standard size. But then truck stops have giant nozzles for the giant tanks on semi trucks. Those won't fit in a regular car.
  - mattmaroon 2y ago
    What do we need it for? Are you driving your car across the Atlantic? We don’t have an international standard for what side of the road to drive on. Being something you practically always don’t take with you when you travel, as long as we’re standardized by continent what would even be the benefit?
    - kristopolous 2y ago
      I think cars will be more commodified internationally as EV efficiencies continue to drive the prices down and new lower cost tiers for different vehicle classes open up. This has certainly happened in China and arguably manifests itself as scooter/motorcycle culture in places like Taiwan, Vietnam and Indonesia. (In Shenzhen, the scooters were almost universally electric when I was there last month) Imagine the container-ship car - packed efficiently and treated like any other international good that can be ordered online. The manufacturer produces them ready for the world market in 2 technical variations, right and left - everything else is personalized. (The motorcycle avoids even the right/left problem) Essentially I don't think we're at the end game of the Toyota Production System. So it's more about being compatible with a vision of how we'll be interfacing vehicles 10-20 years from now. That's when making these decisions wrongly will really start to bite us - after the infrastructure is rolled out and long established. Or who knows, by then there might be an even newer plug and we'll all be on a single system.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        > The manufacturer produces them ready for the world market in 2 technical variations, right and left There are so many more regulations about cars than just what side the wheel is on or what kind of plug is used. Things like bumper design, headlight design, light positions, and more. Many are conflicting meaning being compliant in one market necessitates being non-compliant in another.
        kristopolous 2y ago
        Right, I'm aware of all of these when I said that. This is a vision for what they'll look like at a lower pricing point. The $5,000 car I think will have fewer of these barriers than the $50,000 one. People tend to be less precious with cheaper things. Look at how much more universal cell phones have become after the bottom of the market fell out. I'm pretty sure Christensen made this point in one of his less lauded followup books - the market disrupts with more universal implements. That's probably where I'm stealing this from.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - vel0city 2y ago
    Oh no I won't be able to charge my car when I do my yearly road trip from Texas to Croatia? What ever will I do. It's such a non-issue.
ForHackernews 2y ago
This access deal is the result of government policy.

The government investment is just getting started with deployment, and frankly waiting to standardize on NACS instead of deploying with CCS was the smart choice, even if it delayed deployment by a year or so. NACS is so much better and having a single standard will smooth out so much in the future.

kristopolous 2y ago
But globally it's not a single standard. I believe with NACS, the US once again, sits alone, like it does so often. Basically every other country is doing CCS, the US was deploying CCS but then the government said "nah, let's go with this other one". I remember when I saw companies switching to it, I seemed to be the only person who thought it was a bad idea. On the side of International Standardization it's me, a couple crickets, and a bunch of people telling me how wrong I am.
- tw04 2y ago
  That’s not really accurate. Europe uses CCS2 which is completely different and incompatible with CCS1 which is what we have in the US. Recently the US agreed to move to J3400 for dc fast charging with the expectation CCS will eventually go away. China uses a fourth standard GB/T which is incompatible with any of the above.
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    Right, China and Japan are different. Here's an older map: https://insideevs.com/news/333637/european-ccs-type-2-combo-2-conquers-world-ccs-combo-1-exclusive-to-north-america/ https://insideevs.com/news/333637/european-ccs-type-2-combo-... The US went NACS instead of CCS2. Canada and Mexico haven't made a commitment either way. It would be nice if we could work together and do just one in the same way that we didn't have to worry about fuel pump nozzle geometry being country specific with ICE cars.
    - tw04 2y ago
      > fuel pump nozzle geometry being country specific with ICE cars But they are? Diesel nozzles in the US are significantly larger than in Europe.
      - kristopolous 2y ago
        I didn't know that about diesel. Regardless, I was hoping we could find some agreement globally .
      - grzm 2y ago
        In my experience, there are at least two different Diesel nozzle sizes in the US, and both are different from gasoline nozzles. https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/car-care-repair-and-maintenance/common-myths-about-fuel-pumps/ https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/car-care-repair-and-main...
      - toast0 2y ago
        US Diesel cars before about 2013? didn't really care aboit nozzle size. Some diesel pumps had the old standard nozzle size; some had the new, smaller, nozzle size intended for unleaded gasoline. VW started putting in anti-misfueling devices into their cars (via recall for mine), and then you could find which stations had unleaded sized nozzles because it was hard to use those. Presumably, nearly all of those have been replaced with the old standard size. But then truck stops have giant nozzles for the giant tanks on semi trucks. Those won't fit in a regular car.
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  What do we need it for? Are you driving your car across the Atlantic? We don’t have an international standard for what side of the road to drive on. Being something you practically always don’t take with you when you travel, as long as we’re standardized by continent what would even be the benefit?
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    I think cars will be more commodified internationally as EV efficiencies continue to drive the prices down and new lower cost tiers for different vehicle classes open up. This has certainly happened in China and arguably manifests itself as scooter/motorcycle culture in places like Taiwan, Vietnam and Indonesia. (In Shenzhen, the scooters were almost universally electric when I was there last month) Imagine the container-ship car - packed efficiently and treated like any other international good that can be ordered online. The manufacturer produces them ready for the world market in 2 technical variations, right and left - everything else is personalized. (The motorcycle avoids even the right/left problem) Essentially I don't think we're at the end game of the Toyota Production System. So it's more about being compatible with a vision of how we'll be interfacing vehicles 10-20 years from now. That's when making these decisions wrongly will really start to bite us - after the infrastructure is rolled out and long established. Or who knows, by then there might be an even newer plug and we'll all be on a single system.
    - vel0city 2y ago
      > The manufacturer produces them ready for the world market in 2 technical variations, right and left There are so many more regulations about cars than just what side the wheel is on or what kind of plug is used. Things like bumper design, headlight design, light positions, and more. Many are conflicting meaning being compliant in one market necessitates being non-compliant in another.
      - kristopolous 2y ago
        Right, I'm aware of all of these when I said that. This is a vision for what they'll look like at a lower pricing point. The $5,000 car I think will have fewer of these barriers than the $50,000 one. People tend to be less precious with cheaper things. Look at how much more universal cell phones have become after the bottom of the market fell out. I'm pretty sure Christensen made this point in one of his less lauded followup books - the market disrupts with more universal implements. That's probably where I'm stealing this from.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- vel0city 2y ago
  Oh no I won't be able to charge my car when I do my yearly road trip from Texas to Croatia? What ever will I do. It's such a non-issue.

ForHackernews 2y ago

This access deal is the result of government policy.