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You should check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs

steve_adams_86 2y ago
I should read this. I really struggle with doing work which falls into this category. It’s bad for me, and even worse it strikes me as seriously problematic to society. I don’t want to earn money for nothing, even if most people involved feel as though that in itself is worthwhile. It has been a fairly significant factor in any struggle I’ve had finding work. I have to ask myself, is this a bullshit job? The answer is often yes. I’ve recently remedied this to a degree by lowering salary expectations and looking in fields with a more scientific and practical basis in the products and outputs. Unfortunately I’m not a scientist, only a programmer, so my utility is seriously limited and finding work is quite a bit harder than if I were to stick within the SV startup scene.
coding123 2y ago
While I don't disagree with the notion of the existence of BS jobs, UBI is not needed. Instead we need more companies to take on more and more interesting and world-solving things. We keep saying we need UBI but at the same time "we don't have enough homes". Then instead of UBI, maybe people should "make homes"? (That's just one example - there are also jobs in food, healthcare, mental illness care, spacecraft, etc...
- janalsncm 2y ago
  I used to support UBI but I’ve soured on it. What people need isn’t income it’s opportunity. Housing, food, and healthcare are the basics we want people to have regardless of their dollar cost. Education and maybe cash to start a business would be other forms of opportunity.
  - coding123 2y ago
    My largest problem with UBI is that there will be a large percentage of the population that will just sit at home. There will be a growing demand for people to work, and prices will just skyrocket to pay the wages of the few willing to work. As those wages go up, more people on UBI will finally get off their butts because even they will no longer afford a cheeseburger at $45 each. but the cycle will just keep going. In the end we have witnessed that we need stable inflation. If we have fast inflation, then unlimited numbers of people are left behind, for no fault of their own. If inflation is relatively stable, people can adjust slowly, carefully, and both companies and employees benefit from that.
    - janalsncm 2y ago
      I think UBI will lead to inflation, which is the main reason I prefer simply giving people the opportunities they need rather than having them buy them. This isn’t the same as food stamps, though, since food stamps are gated by income, leading to a cliff. Instead, we should gate essential goods by need.
daedrdev 2y ago
And you should consider that it's probably junk. From the article: A 2021 study empirically tested several of Graeber's claims, such as that bullshit jobs were increasing over time and that they accounted for much of the workforce. Using data from the EU-conducted European Working Conditions Survey, the study found that a low and declining proportion of employees considered their jobs to be "rarely" or "never" useful. Many jobs that appear bad are actually needed, often only because of regulatory requirements or because their importance is misunderstood.
- whoknowsidont 2y ago
  >study found that a low and declining proportion of employees considered their jobs to be "rarely" or "never" useful. These people are self-reporting this. Quite frankly with the number of people in bullshit jobs who think they're doing work I wouldn't really put a lot of value in those types of self-reports.
  - leni536 2y ago
    "I Have People Skills! I Am Good At Dealing With People!"
- krageon 2y ago
  Spoken like one of the six managers every single person needs to have.
- sensanaty 2y ago
  These are self-reported, though. I wouldn't tell my boss or my colleagues the job I do is useless for hopefully obvious reasons, but when I really think about it in the grand scheme of things it really is a Bullshit Job. Basically any SaaS is (with some exceptions of course) just a collection of Bullshit Jobs. But there's also nothing really wrong with that. We live in the society we live in, which basically necessitates the existence of many Bullshit Jobs in order for things to keep working as they do. I'd even argue basically anything that isn't to do with Healthcare, Education or similar things along those lines count as bullshit jobs really.
- 2y ago
lordgrenville 2y ago
Not commenting specifically on LI ranking, but Byrne Hobart wrote a terrific rebuttal of the main premise of this book https://www.thediff.co/archive/bullshit-jobs-is-a-terrible-curiosity-killing-concept/ https://www.thediff.co/archive/bullshit-jobs-is-a-terrible-c...

I should read this. I really struggle with doing work which falls into this category. It’s bad for me, and even worse it strikes me as seriously problematic to society. I don’t want to earn money for nothing, even if most people involved feel as though that in itself is worthwhile. It has been a fairly significant factor in any struggle I’ve had finding work. I have to ask myself, is this a bullshit job? The answer is often yes. I’ve recently remedied this to a degree by lowering salary expectations and looking in fields with a more scientific and practical basis in the products and outputs. Unfortunately I’m not a scientist, only a programmer, so my utility is seriously limited and finding work is quite a bit harder than if I were to stick within the SV startup scene.

coding123 2y ago

While I don't disagree with the notion of the existence of BS jobs, UBI is not needed. Instead we need more companies to take on more and more interesting and world-solving things. We keep saying we need UBI but at the same time "we don't have enough homes". Then instead of UBI, maybe people should "make homes"? (That's just one example - there are also jobs in food, healthcare, mental illness care, spacecraft, etc...

janalsncm 2y ago
I used to support UBI but I’ve soured on it. What people need isn’t income it’s opportunity. Housing, food, and healthcare are the basics we want people to have regardless of their dollar cost. Education and maybe cash to start a business would be other forms of opportunity.
- coding123 2y ago
  My largest problem with UBI is that there will be a large percentage of the population that will just sit at home. There will be a growing demand for people to work, and prices will just skyrocket to pay the wages of the few willing to work. As those wages go up, more people on UBI will finally get off their butts because even they will no longer afford a cheeseburger at $45 each. but the cycle will just keep going. In the end we have witnessed that we need stable inflation. If we have fast inflation, then unlimited numbers of people are left behind, for no fault of their own. If inflation is relatively stable, people can adjust slowly, carefully, and both companies and employees benefit from that.
  - janalsncm 2y ago
    I think UBI will lead to inflation, which is the main reason I prefer simply giving people the opportunities they need rather than having them buy them. This isn’t the same as food stamps, though, since food stamps are gated by income, leading to a cliff. Instead, we should gate essential goods by need.

daedrdev 2y ago

And you should consider that it's probably junk. From the article: A 2021 study empirically tested several of Graeber's claims, such as that bullshit jobs were increasing over time and that they accounted for much of the workforce. Using data from the EU-conducted European Working Conditions Survey, the study found that a low and declining proportion of employees considered their jobs to be "rarely" or "never" useful. Many jobs that appear bad are actually needed, often only because of regulatory requirements or because their importance is misunderstood.

whoknowsidont 2y ago
>study found that a low and declining proportion of employees considered their jobs to be "rarely" or "never" useful. These people are self-reporting this. Quite frankly with the number of people in bullshit jobs who think they're doing work I wouldn't really put a lot of value in those types of self-reports.
- leni536 2y ago
  "I Have People Skills! I Am Good At Dealing With People!"
krageon 2y ago
Spoken like one of the six managers every single person needs to have.
sensanaty 2y ago
These are self-reported, though. I wouldn't tell my boss or my colleagues the job I do is useless for hopefully obvious reasons, but when I really think about it in the grand scheme of things it really is a Bullshit Job. Basically any SaaS is (with some exceptions of course) just a collection of Bullshit Jobs. But there's also nothing really wrong with that. We live in the society we live in, which basically necessitates the existence of many Bullshit Jobs in order for things to keep working as they do. I'd even argue basically anything that isn't to do with Healthcare, Education or similar things along those lines count as bullshit jobs really.
2y ago

lordgrenville 2y ago

Not commenting specifically on LI ranking, but Byrne Hobart wrote a terrific rebuttal of the main premise of this book https://www.thediff.co/archive/bullshit-jobs-is-a-terrible-curiosity-killing-concept/ https://www.thediff.co/archive/bullshit-jobs-is-a-terrible-c...