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Actual research into this area is needed for us, but I am always left wondering, why are we not doing research into what packaging is better for us? Are glass

Actual research into this area is needed for us, but I am always left wondering, why are we not doing research into what packaging is better for us? Are glass bottles OK, or does the coloring leech out? I am guessing clay pots were fine for thousands of years, should I be using them? What about brown paper wrap? I know the butcher paper has a coating on it... Every time I read something like this two thoughts come into my mind: - I will never get "mega corp" to stop using them. - I do not know what the alternatives are.

Workaccount2 2y ago
You'll never get mega corp to stop using them because you will never get regular people to stop wanting them. Convenience is king, and humans simply aren't really programmed care about long term consequences.
- wil421 2y ago
  Not fair to consumers. Mega Corp created pretty metal cups and we moved off of plastics ones like nalgene. Vacuum sealed metal containers hold ice much better than glass or plastic. Jokes on us, Mega Corp sprayed plastic liners and/or PFAS onto the metal for longevity. Same with milk cartons. Most of us didn’t know this until years later. Glass is not an option for people with young children. I don’t want to pick up glass out of their car seat again.
- pkphilip 2y ago
  It is not just convenience. It is also cost. How many customers will be willing to pay a $ or more just for the packaging? Every alternative to plastic is much more expensive. For instance, take glass. Glass bottles break very easily during transport and they are also more expensive to purchase. If you are thinking of recycling them, that too adds cost in the process - from pickup, cleaning, drying etc. The holy grail for packaging would be a transparent, flexible, glass-like substance that is also extremely inert and which doesn't absorb the contents, doesn't spoil, doesn't allow air in or out, retains shape for a long time.... and yet can be decomposed!! As you can see this is a tall order.
  - geysersam 2y ago
    And is light like plastic and not heavy like glass
- riskable 2y ago
  > Convenience is king Price is king. Everyone knows glass containers are better and consumers prefer them. However, shipping glass containers has a considerably higher cost than plastic from both a weight perspective as well as a fragility/loss perspective. That doesn't even factor in the cost of the glass containers themselves. If someone invented a glass that was as cheap and light as plastic food suppliers would switch to it in a heartbeat. What the world needs is glass foam that's strong enough that it won't break while shipping and smooth on both the outside and inside. Think: Glass foam with a Gorilla glass-like surface on both the outside and inside.
SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
Were clay pots fine? How would we know it wasn’t helping with the 50% child mortality rate? I object to the idea that the old-times ways were better when we know even in the short history people were prescribe cigarettes and brushed their teeth with radioactive toothpaste.
novia 2y ago
Glass is the gold standard for a non-reactive chemical. Use glass jars instead of plastic whenever possible.
- mrob 2y ago
  Glass isn't good enough for extreme non-reactivity, e.g. for containing ultrapure water used in semiconductor fabs. The real gold standard for non-reactive chemicals is PTFE, which is a PFAS. This shows that lumping all PFAS together as "forever chemicals" makes no sense. So long as you never overheat it (easily confirmed with an IR thermometer), PTFE is one of the safest food-contact materials you can get.
  - amelius 2y ago
    How about borosilicate glass?
    - mrob 2y ago
      Still more reactive than PTFE.
      - adrian_b 2y ago
        While PTFE is much more inert than common glass and even than borosilicate glass, it is not a good material for food storage. The reason is that PTFE, like any plastic, is porous, so it can never be perfectly cleaned, but it will retain embedded in it some residues of the food previously stored in it. This can lead just to some undesirable smell, but in appropriate temperature and humidity conditions it can also lead to the growth of bacteria. For food storage and handling, the best food-contact materials remain glasses or metals, which can be cleaned perfectly.
    - adrian_b 2y ago
      While PTFE (Teflon) is resistant to many chemicals that would damage borosilicate glass, borosilicate glass is perfectly safe in contact with food. Borosilicate glass is much more resistant to acids (except hydrogen fluoride) than to alkalis, but most foods are acidic or neutral, none are alkaline. Of the materials commonly encountered, the safest for food contact are borosilicate glass, normal glass, commercially-pure titanium and stainless steel.
yojo 2y ago
Depending on the era, clay pots often had led glazing, which could leach out into acidic foods/beverages. Generally glass is going to be fine, as long as it’s not painted/coated on the surface that touches the food or your lips. That said, the cap is almost certainly plastic/plastic coated. Plastics are all suspect IMO, particularly in hot liquid applications (looking at you, Pho delivery). Aluminum seems like it would be fine, but the cans all use internal rust inhibiting coatings (which vary from beverage to beverage) that are also suspect. Parchment paper is fine, butcher paper is coated, as you point out. Oh, and your drinking water is probably full of microplastics. Personally, I use glass storage for leftovers, reverse osmosis filter for drinking water, only buy liquids packaged in glass, and try to buy whole ingredients/cook my own food. But I still sometimes enjoy a can of beer or a take out meal. I figure if there is a hazard, it’s dose dependent, and I just try to be a little thoughtful about where I’m picking up exposure.
- JR1427 2y ago
  > Aluminum seems like it would be fine There are risks with aluminium causing neurological problems, especially the soft unanodised stuff. I think aluminium cooking pans are banned in some countries.
  - yojo 2y ago
    Ah damn, there goes another one – thanks for flagging. We oven-cook fish packets and recently switched from using foil to unbleached parchment, but that was more about sustainability. Guess there's another good reason to avoid the foil.
- doctorpangloss 2y ago
  > and try to buy whole ingredients/cook my own food. How do you think the ingredients are delivered to the store?

Workaccount2 2y ago

You'll never get mega corp to stop using them because you will never get regular people to stop wanting them. Convenience is king, and humans simply aren't really programmed care about long term consequences.

wil421 2y ago
Not fair to consumers. Mega Corp created pretty metal cups and we moved off of plastics ones like nalgene. Vacuum sealed metal containers hold ice much better than glass or plastic. Jokes on us, Mega Corp sprayed plastic liners and/or PFAS onto the metal for longevity. Same with milk cartons. Most of us didn’t know this until years later. Glass is not an option for people with young children. I don’t want to pick up glass out of their car seat again.
pkphilip 2y ago
It is not just convenience. It is also cost. How many customers will be willing to pay a $ or more just for the packaging? Every alternative to plastic is much more expensive. For instance, take glass. Glass bottles break very easily during transport and they are also more expensive to purchase. If you are thinking of recycling them, that too adds cost in the process - from pickup, cleaning, drying etc. The holy grail for packaging would be a transparent, flexible, glass-like substance that is also extremely inert and which doesn't absorb the contents, doesn't spoil, doesn't allow air in or out, retains shape for a long time.... and yet can be decomposed!! As you can see this is a tall order.
- geysersam 2y ago
  And is light like plastic and not heavy like glass
riskable 2y ago
> Convenience is king Price is king. Everyone knows glass containers are better and consumers prefer them. However, shipping glass containers has a considerably higher cost than plastic from both a weight perspective as well as a fragility/loss perspective. That doesn't even factor in the cost of the glass containers themselves. If someone invented a glass that was as cheap and light as plastic food suppliers would switch to it in a heartbeat. What the world needs is glass foam that's strong enough that it won't break while shipping and smooth on both the outside and inside. Think: Glass foam with a Gorilla glass-like surface on both the outside and inside.

SV_BubbleTime 2y ago

Were clay pots fine? How would we know it wasn’t helping with the 50% child mortality rate? I object to the idea that the old-times ways were better when we know even in the short history people were prescribe cigarettes and brushed their teeth with radioactive toothpaste.

novia 2y ago

Glass is the gold standard for a non-reactive chemical. Use glass jars instead of plastic whenever possible.

mrob 2y ago
Glass isn't good enough for extreme non-reactivity, e.g. for containing ultrapure water used in semiconductor fabs. The real gold standard for non-reactive chemicals is PTFE, which is a PFAS. This shows that lumping all PFAS together as "forever chemicals" makes no sense. So long as you never overheat it (easily confirmed with an IR thermometer), PTFE is one of the safest food-contact materials you can get.
- amelius 2y ago
  How about borosilicate glass?
  - mrob 2y ago
    Still more reactive than PTFE.
    - adrian_b 2y ago
      While PTFE is much more inert than common glass and even than borosilicate glass, it is not a good material for food storage. The reason is that PTFE, like any plastic, is porous, so it can never be perfectly cleaned, but it will retain embedded in it some residues of the food previously stored in it. This can lead just to some undesirable smell, but in appropriate temperature and humidity conditions it can also lead to the growth of bacteria. For food storage and handling, the best food-contact materials remain glasses or metals, which can be cleaned perfectly.
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    While PTFE (Teflon) is resistant to many chemicals that would damage borosilicate glass, borosilicate glass is perfectly safe in contact with food. Borosilicate glass is much more resistant to acids (except hydrogen fluoride) than to alkalis, but most foods are acidic or neutral, none are alkaline. Of the materials commonly encountered, the safest for food contact are borosilicate glass, normal glass, commercially-pure titanium and stainless steel.

yojo 2y ago

Depending on the era, clay pots often had led glazing, which could leach out into acidic foods/beverages. Generally glass is going to be fine, as long as it’s not painted/coated on the surface that touches the food or your lips. That said, the cap is almost certainly plastic/plastic coated. Plastics are all suspect IMO, particularly in hot liquid applications (looking at you, Pho delivery). Aluminum seems like it would be fine, but the cans all use internal rust inhibiting coatings (which vary from beverage to beverage) that are also suspect. Parchment paper is fine, butcher paper is coated, as you point out. Oh, and your drinking water is probably full of microplastics. Personally, I use glass storage for leftovers, reverse osmosis filter for drinking water, only buy liquids packaged in glass, and try to buy whole ingredients/cook my own food. But I still sometimes enjoy a can of beer or a take out meal. I figure if there is a hazard, it’s dose dependent, and I just try to be a little thoughtful about where I’m picking up exposure.

JR1427 2y ago
> Aluminum seems like it would be fine There are risks with aluminium causing neurological problems, especially the soft unanodised stuff. I think aluminium cooking pans are banned in some countries.
- yojo 2y ago
  Ah damn, there goes another one – thanks for flagging. We oven-cook fish packets and recently switched from using foil to unbleached parchment, but that was more about sustainability. Guess there's another good reason to avoid the foil.
doctorpangloss 2y ago
> and try to buy whole ingredients/cook my own food. How do you think the ingredients are delivered to the store?