5 ms·

Unclear what "AI" brings to the table here. Sounds like traditional automation & monitoring could do the job here. No mention of how the model works, or what ki

Unclear what "AI" brings to the table here. Sounds like traditional automation & monitoring could do the job here. No mention of how the model works, or what kind of training is involved. > white blood cell count was "really, really high" You don't need AI for this. I wish they would provide a more compelling example.

byteknight 2y ago
I am beyond tired of the "It made a decision on a if-statement, that's AI!"
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  I heard AI is just if-statements, so perhaps the reverse is true.
  - janalsncm 2y ago
    You could build a transformer from if statements if you wanted to.
- patapong 2y ago
  I am tired of people redefining AI to exclude fully viable and useful technologies in favour of the latest hype. AI should be a functional concept, not defined by technological choices.
- kenjackson 2y ago
  Most modern AI does even less. It simply flows values through a graph. No decision is ever made. The consumer of the network interprets the result and makes a decision.
charlie0 2y ago
You do have to wonder though, if traditional automation could do the job, why wasn't that done already?
- contagiousflow 2y ago
  I think the real question is why is this being reported on. There are always medical advancements, but because this one gets chosen as a news story because "AI" in the headline gets clicks.
  - digging 2y ago
    This isn't just a small advancement, though. It's a simple tool, which isn't restricted to medical specialists, with a huge impact. If a study found that letting cats roam hospital hallways reduced unexpected deaths by 26%, I think that would be reported, too.
    - contagiousflow 2y ago
      It's a 26% decrease in relative terms, but looking at the study shows that it is a 0.5% decrease in absolute terms (1.6% vs 2.1%). A 0.5% decrease is great and should be applauded, but I think the article framing of this being a breakthrough is misleading and even goes against the conclusions of the very paper it is reporting on.
      - charlie0 2y ago
        Dang, the journos fooled me again with their creative headlines. You're right, this is basically a nothing-burger to generate clicks.
- apwell23 2y ago
  because its not useful ? "A difference-in-differences comparison between GIM and subspecialty units demonstrated no statistically significant difference in outcomes"
- hiddencost 2y ago
  This was traditional automation. They used a bog standard statistical techniques and called it AI for fundraising purposes.
snapcaster 2y ago
I think there is some element of "technology laundering" here that I saw during the blockchain hype. Even if plain ol' monitoring and automation could solve your problem no executives want to back that. If you say it's adding AI, blockchain, etc. they get to feel like a visionary so they'll fund your project
delichon 2y ago
It's the difference between "give the programmer this medical report and have them parse out the white blood cell count" versus s/progammer/AI. And the same every time that the report changes in any way. I've been that programmer more times than I can count. I'm much happier about being able to work on better problems instead than I am worried about AI taking away my rice bowl.
hiddencost 2y ago
They used a bog standard statistical technique and called it AI to try to attract more funding...
nisten 2y ago
Machine learning is extremely good at recognising patterns and I'd much rather trust an LLM's spotting accuracy for an early warning system than the regex code of hospital IT workers
- criley2 2y ago
  This doesn't make sense on many levels. "Hospital IT" does not code the hospital EHR systems, just like the airport doesn't code flight management systems. These are life-long software engineers, just like others reading this comment, using the best tools at their disposal to engineer lifesaving software. They're not using "regex" to develop algorithms for monitoring patients (???), and frankly that suggestion is so wild that one has to assume you don't know anything about algorithm design at all. An LLM literally hallucinates incorrect answers by design and struggles to get extremely basic math and spelling correct. You're welcome to put your literal life in the hands of a hallucinating english generator, but when it comes to healthcare, I want a "0% LLM" policy. LLM's will be the cheap things that offer substandard care to poor people, while the wealthy and elite enjoy personalized and human-centered care.
- artfulmink 2y ago
  Machine learning is indeed extremely good at pattern recognition, but I wouldn't trust an LLM to reliably identify patterns, especially in a medical context. As other commenters have said, this article is evidence of classical methods continuing to be useful.
- jampekka 2y ago
  This method has nothing to do with LLMs or even "deep learning" though.
- thenaturalist 2y ago
  This sentence contains two diametrically opposed hypothesis. LLM's and accuracy in one sentence in the context of quantifying thresholds is stunning. LLM's don't have a concept of numerical accuracy.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> don't need AI for this And you don’t need Dropbox for file sync. Machine learning makes integrating automation easier.
jampekka 2y ago
It is based on a relatively traditional time series regression method. "AI" is just the usual spin.
- Unbeliever69 2y ago
  In AI applications, especially those involving predictive modeling, MARS can be used to improve the accuracy of predictions. For example, MARS models are used in time series forecasting, financial predictions, environmental modeling, and other domains where relationships between inputs and outputs are complex and non-linear. By adding time-awareness, the model can handle time-based data more effectively.
potato3732842 2y ago
Knowing what I know about workplace dynamics in hospitals I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the "new hotness" factor of the term "AI" probably does a lot of heavy lifting here when it comes to getting buy in from management and users. Forgoing a decade of income to get some letters beside your name selects for people who don't take orders from Clippy unless you market it well.
jncfhnb 2y ago
It’s a regression model. You don’t “need” AI for anything. But using ML to identify thresholds for decision making is extremely useful. I don’t like calling everything AI, but I’m even more irritated by people that don’t understand the value of simple ML models for low hanging fruit decisions like the one shown here
- rscho 2y ago
  I agree. That's a much more compelling use of statistics than the shitty neural nets and whatnot we are usually served in healthcare.
- papruapap 2y ago
  Isn't regression a basic AI? Most traditional ML algorithms are advanced regression models (how we draw the line/planes)
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    AI is a poorly defined term. That’s about the full discussion
wesselbindt 2y ago
> Unclear what "AI" brings to the table here A 26% reduction in unexpected deaths, apparently.

byteknight 2y ago

I am beyond tired of the "It made a decision on a if-statement, that's AI!"

robertlagrant 2y ago
I heard AI is just if-statements, so perhaps the reverse is true.
- janalsncm 2y ago
  You could build a transformer from if statements if you wanted to.
patapong 2y ago
I am tired of people redefining AI to exclude fully viable and useful technologies in favour of the latest hype. AI should be a functional concept, not defined by technological choices.
kenjackson 2y ago
Most modern AI does even less. It simply flows values through a graph. No decision is ever made. The consumer of the network interprets the result and makes a decision.

charlie0 2y ago

You do have to wonder though, if traditional automation could do the job, why wasn't that done already?

contagiousflow 2y ago
I think the real question is why is this being reported on. There are always medical advancements, but because this one gets chosen as a news story because "AI" in the headline gets clicks.
- digging 2y ago
  This isn't just a small advancement, though. It's a simple tool, which isn't restricted to medical specialists, with a huge impact. If a study found that letting cats roam hospital hallways reduced unexpected deaths by 26%, I think that would be reported, too.
  - contagiousflow 2y ago
    It's a 26% decrease in relative terms, but looking at the study shows that it is a 0.5% decrease in absolute terms (1.6% vs 2.1%). A 0.5% decrease is great and should be applauded, but I think the article framing of this being a breakthrough is misleading and even goes against the conclusions of the very paper it is reporting on.
    - charlie0 2y ago
      Dang, the journos fooled me again with their creative headlines. You're right, this is basically a nothing-burger to generate clicks.
apwell23 2y ago
because its not useful ? "A difference-in-differences comparison between GIM and subspecialty units demonstrated no statistically significant difference in outcomes"
hiddencost 2y ago
This was traditional automation. They used a bog standard statistical techniques and called it AI for fundraising purposes.

snapcaster 2y ago

I think there is some element of "technology laundering" here that I saw during the blockchain hype. Even if plain ol' monitoring and automation could solve your problem no executives want to back that. If you say it's adding AI, blockchain, etc. they get to feel like a visionary so they'll fund your project

delichon 2y ago

It's the difference between "give the programmer this medical report and have them parse out the white blood cell count" versus s/progammer/AI. And the same every time that the report changes in any way. I've been that programmer more times than I can count. I'm much happier about being able to work on better problems instead than I am worried about AI taking away my rice bowl.

hiddencost 2y ago

They used a bog standard statistical technique and called it AI to try to attract more funding...

nisten 2y ago

Machine learning is extremely good at recognising patterns and I'd much rather trust an LLM's spotting accuracy for an early warning system than the regex code of hospital IT workers

criley2 2y ago
This doesn't make sense on many levels. "Hospital IT" does not code the hospital EHR systems, just like the airport doesn't code flight management systems. These are life-long software engineers, just like others reading this comment, using the best tools at their disposal to engineer lifesaving software. They're not using "regex" to develop algorithms for monitoring patients (???), and frankly that suggestion is so wild that one has to assume you don't know anything about algorithm design at all. An LLM literally hallucinates incorrect answers by design and struggles to get extremely basic math and spelling correct. You're welcome to put your literal life in the hands of a hallucinating english generator, but when it comes to healthcare, I want a "0% LLM" policy. LLM's will be the cheap things that offer substandard care to poor people, while the wealthy and elite enjoy personalized and human-centered care.
artfulmink 2y ago
Machine learning is indeed extremely good at pattern recognition, but I wouldn't trust an LLM to reliably identify patterns, especially in a medical context. As other commenters have said, this article is evidence of classical methods continuing to be useful.
jampekka 2y ago
This method has nothing to do with LLMs or even "deep learning" though.
thenaturalist 2y ago
This sentence contains two diametrically opposed hypothesis. LLM's and accuracy in one sentence in the context of quantifying thresholds is stunning. LLM's don't have a concept of numerical accuracy.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> don't need AI for this And you don’t need Dropbox for file sync. Machine learning makes integrating automation easier.

jampekka 2y ago

It is based on a relatively traditional time series regression method. "AI" is just the usual spin.

Unbeliever69 2y ago
In AI applications, especially those involving predictive modeling, MARS can be used to improve the accuracy of predictions. For example, MARS models are used in time series forecasting, financial predictions, environmental modeling, and other domains where relationships between inputs and outputs are complex and non-linear. By adding time-awareness, the model can handle time-based data more effectively.

potato3732842 2y ago

Knowing what I know about workplace dynamics in hospitals I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the "new hotness" factor of the term "AI" probably does a lot of heavy lifting here when it comes to getting buy in from management and users. Forgoing a decade of income to get some letters beside your name selects for people who don't take orders from Clippy unless you market it well.

jncfhnb 2y ago

It’s a regression model. You don’t “need” AI for anything. But using ML to identify thresholds for decision making is extremely useful. I don’t like calling everything AI, but I’m even more irritated by people that don’t understand the value of simple ML models for low hanging fruit decisions like the one shown here

rscho 2y ago
I agree. That's a much more compelling use of statistics than the shitty neural nets and whatnot we are usually served in healthcare.
papruapap 2y ago
Isn't regression a basic AI? Most traditional ML algorithms are advanced regression models (how we draw the line/planes)
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  AI is a poorly defined term. That’s about the full discussion

wesselbindt 2y ago

> Unclear what "AI" brings to the table here A 26% reduction in unexpected deaths, apparently.