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> Eight killed and 2,750 wounded Such a pager did end up hurting non-involved people, in great quantity.
by remram 2y ago
> Eight killed and 2,750 wounded
Such a pager did end up hurting non-involved people, in great quantity.
- temporalparts 2y agoI know there is a documented case of a non-involved person getting injured, but do you have evidence that this attack was not 99% effective? The attack vector was the device specifically used only by involved people.
- snypher 2y agoA 9 year old child was killed, proving this attack wasn't as targeted as you think. However Israel is happy to accept any amount of collateral damage as long as it doesn't happen to them.
- rougka 2y agoAny child death is tragic, but this is really one of the most targeted strikes in the history of warfare. It is safe to believe that everyone that was given a pager for secret communication by a terrorist group, is associated with such group, probably in a military capacity. Furthermore, videos show that extremely close bystanders are left unhurt. I think this only goes out to show that criticism towards Israel waging warfare is not really about the way that warfare is fought, but really on the right of Israel to fight at all. As no one in history has achieved a more precise attack in urban setting towards a non-uniformed organization ever.
- talldayo 2y ago> but this is really one of the most targeted strikes in the history of warfare. You are making that up and quoting yourself. There was not a single fire-control system onboard these pagers; there was no visual designation of the target, and no confirmation that it was being carried by it's owners. The target was broadly designated and not even discriminated on a case-by-case basis. A button was pressed, and consequences including the death of a child are now in play. Israel has the capability to field targeted strikes on their own using domestic Litening and SPICE munitions (not to say they don't end up targeting civilians anyways). The unforunate bottom line is that this was an indiscriminate and presumptive attack that generally relies on a complete disregard for collateral damage. Innocent bystanders died, ones that would not be targeted by any morally accountable soldier in the command-and-control loop. That means an error was made, in civilized armies.
- taleodor 2y ago[flagged]
- remram 2y ago[flagged]
- charbroiled 2y agoThousands were injured, yes. How many of the thousands injured belonged to Hezbollah? It’s a safe bet that the majority of injuries were sustained by owners of these Hezbollah-supplied pagers. International law allows, to some extent, collateral damage during war (and Israel and Hezbollah are certainly at war). What percentage of collateral damage would you say is acceptable here? 50%? 20%? None?
- remram 2y agoHezbollah are also terrorists. You might think it is ok to fight terror with terror, all I am trying to point out is that this is indeed a response in kind.
- pvaldes 2y ago> Thousands were injured / wounded Just as footnote, I think that mutilated is the correct word here. Having in mind that 2000 people lost fingers, or noses or a chunk of their hips.
- gizajob 2y agoYour terrorist group is their legitimate government. In Lebanon today their legitimate government was attacked by a terrorist group.
- charbroiled 2y agoHamas may be the “legitimate” government of Gaza (or at least the most recently elected one), but Hezbollah is not the legitimate government of Lebanon; it’s a minority party with outsized influence in parts of Lebanon due to its militia and intelligence services.
- gizajob 2y agoMine was a semantic point rather than one picking sides. I don't have a dog in the race.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- abalone 2y agoThere is no comprehensive information yet on the ratio of civilians to militants maimed by this attack, and any claims otherwise are propaganda. If an enemy had exploded small remote controlled bombs in American supermarkets and homes targeting members of the American political parties, the sponsors of terrorism and oppressive dictatorships in many foreign countries, there is no question we would characterize it as a terrorist attack.
- PolygonSheep 2y ago[flagged]
- alphan0n 2y agoWho though? Who, exactly?
- rattray 2y ago[flagged]
- colordrops 2y agoIt was in public, and there are videos of the public explosions. There are videos of hospitals with many doctors laying around bloodied.
- rougka 2y ago[flagged]
- ineedasername 2y agoWhat is the quantity? Reports are the beepers were purchased directly by Hezbollah for their use.
- ineedasername 2y agoFound it: multiple reports say 5,000 pagers
- Sabinus 2y agoIncredible, Israel can use tiny bombs in the personal possession of terrorists and they'll still be accused of warcrimes.
- remram 2y agoWhatever words you're reading when you look at mine might be incredible, what I wrote is almost 3000 wounded in the crossfire, including children. You're ignoring that and pretending they're accused of something else. Why?
- mupuff1234 2y agoI'm confused, how do you know the 99% of those wounded aren't Hezbollah operatives? How many innocents would get harmed during a more conventional military strike against the same group of operatives? I would be fairly surprised if Hezbollah opsec guidelines didn't say that you must have the pager at you at all times, and make sure it can't be accessed by others.
- thret 2y agoThis is likely the most precise large scale military strike of all time. You can't control for everything - some pagers might have been in the hands of innocent people - but it sure seems like an ideal attack vector.
- snovv_crash 2y agoWhy are you assuming those 2700 people weren't Hezbollah? Who else was carrying the pagers to avoid Israel location tracking?
- easyThrowaway 2y agoAnyone who got resold / loaned those devices, those who were next to blast radius of those devices while going with their lives, any relatives who were unfortunate enough of having an hezbollah member in their family. This is basically just one step above a chemical attack, and can only be excused as "the end justifies the means" by the interested parties.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]